How Fast?

[The_Vigilante]

I have been practicing my draws wearing cover with and without the timer. What kind of times should I be aiming for wearing cover? Thanks

[HoMiE]

Cover garment doesn't affect my draw too much. I may be about a .10 slower while wearing cover. Now reloads, that's another story. The goal should be to make it about the same whether or not your wearing cover.

[Seth]

I draw to first shot at about 2.20 with cover. I'd like to see it at about 1.5 sec.

[sirveyr]

I can consistently do 1.3's with a cover garment. I don't know if that's good or bad. I can't guarantee a -0, but I can guarantee that the round will hit the berm.

[HighVelocity]

In practice I average 1.4-1.5x with a zero hit. If I don't see the front sight I can get the shot off in about 1.2 but may or may not get a zero hit.

[Duane Thomas]

Y'know, I haven't practiced drawing from concealment in years. I did put in years practicing it, but then I realized the movement of the draw stroke from concealment, and without, wasn't enough different that there was any advantage to practicing with a cover garment.

When I'm on, I can consistently hit the A-zone (never done this on an IDPA target, strangely enough) from 3-to-7 yards in the .9s up to the 1.0s when I get sloppy. Several years ago, BTW, for an article I did a test where I measured my draw both with and without concealment. I was really curious what the difference might be. Answer: .08 second on average.

[Seth]

That's fast. Wow. I just bought a proper 'concealment' vest and have found my times went down quite a bit compared to the fleece vest I was using prior. My USPSA draw is about 1.3, but something about getting the coat out of the way slows me down terribly.

I probably oughta practice it occasionally.

[Duane Thomas]

I probably oughta practice it occasionally.

Hey, now there's an idea.

You...you...practicer, you.

[Seth]

Not lately. I been so busy either being sick, taking care of the sick or just being lazy, I'm lucky if I get ammo built.

My dryfire practice needs a jumpstart....

[Duane Thomas]

Where is the "car battery hooked up to a guy's tongue" emoticon when you need it?

[steel1212]

My none cover vs cover is HUGE! I can get high .8s with my limited gear, low to mid .9s with my SS gear. With my IDPA gear and cover I hover around a 1.3 the last time I checked. I only shoot IDPA once a month though but I did a lot of practice on it before my first IDPA major match. That 1.3 is usually a down zero hit also to a 7 yard target.

[GmanCdp]

alot of times when i'm running shooters at the local match..when giving the time to the score keeper,i'll let the shooter know what his draw time was...

i thinks it's important to "listen" to the beeeeeeeeeep and be on the draw at the first of it...i see alot of shooters wait till the beeeeeeeep stops before starting...Hopalong helped me out with this sometime back,by having the gun up,finger on the trigger and with the timer close to the ear...press the trigger as soon as you heard the b in beeeeeep..did this 10 or 15 times to get use to the b..made a difference in the reaction time for me.......

Edited November 15, 2008 by GmanCdp

[ken hebert]

Times are different from my real daily carry rig and t-shirt to my IDPA game rig and cover. After our monthly steel match today I left up the last stage and ran my real daily carry set up on the clock, draw to COM hit. Using a S&W alloy frame commander .45 with Fed HydraShock, drawing from leather carried just behind my hip line under 2 t-shirts (its kinda cold here today), hands relaxed at sides, I was consistantly 1.40-1.50 at 10 yards.

I was a little dissapointed, figured I'd be more around the 1.1-1.2 mark. Time to practice some more.

[Duane Thomas]

That's still pretty rockin' out from under two shirts on a 10-yard target.

[Jane]

alot of times when i'm running shooters at the local match..when giving the time to the score keeper,i'll let the shooter know what his draw time was...

i thinks it's important to "listen" to the beeeeeeeeeep and be on the draw at the first of it...i see alot of shooters wait till the beeeeeeeep stops before starting...Hopalong helped me out with this sometime back,by having the gun up,finger on the trigger and with the timer close to the ear...press the trigger as soon as you heard the b in beeeeeep..did this 10 or 15 times to get use to the b..made a difference in the reaction time for me.......

A couple of years ago when I was actually trying to practice once in a while, I came across a reaction-time drill on one of Matt Burkett's DVDs.

Gun at firing position, aimed someplace safe (not trying to get hits on a target). Timer on random delay. Practice getting off a shot as quickly as possible after the beep. I did it some with the .22 conversion on my Glock as a cheapness measure.

His teaching-dummy Kevin immediately was at about .13 seconds, which Matt thought was OK. My best was usually around .21 or .22... Guess not all people have reflexes

[Boats]

Checked with the timer my IDPA style cover vest is faster than a short jacket I was wearing today at the range. Long vest seems to sweep back without interfering while the short jacket is right were I need to grip the pistol causing some fumbles. Fastest of all is no cover.

Boats

[G17Racing]

Average 1.3-1.6 concealed, down -0 using a 5.11 Tactical Vest.

Could be a bit lower I believe with more dry practice as well as some more

timing drills to better my reaction time; cause ur only gonna be as fast as you can react.

Good point made by GmanCdp with regards to ppl reacting during and even at the end of the beep

I see that a lot at club practice days and even at matches.

When in truth and in fact one should be reacting at the initial "break in silence" (at least thats how I

explain it to my shooters) at the beginning of the beep

These timing drills are essential to anyone trying to better their reaction time altogether.

[mike4045]

I don't practice it much. At tha last match I was at 1.0-1.2 with a shirt that hangs upu on my grip tape.

Mike

[Cherryriver]

Another significant factor during matches is the cadence the SO/RO uses.

Most SOs tend to use an exact cadence of the three final commands, ready-standby-beep. It's not hard to tune in and hit the beep more perfectly when the calls are so consistent, especially the more rapid bang-bang-bang ones that are common.

Watch and compare the times between a consistent SO and an inconsistent one- one who varies every beep time- and you'll see first shot times climb quite a bit.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Cherryriver

[Duane Thomas]

I believe that depends on the skill level of the shooter. At a higher skill level the shooter is so relaxed as they wait for the beep that it's pretty much impossible to catch them offguard - because they're never onguard, if that makes sense. You're just waiting, in this state of still readiness.

[Ron Ankeny]

Answer: .08 second on average.

IDPA gear from concealment...wow.

[Nik Habicht]

Answer: .08 second on average.

IDPA gear from concealment...wow.

You did catch that the .08 second was the difference in time between a concealed and a non-concealed draw, right?

[Sac Law Man]

When you talk about the speed of your draw, remember draw times will be affected by the distance from the target. The time it takes you to get the gun out of the holster should be the same, but it will take you a bit longer to get an acceptable sight picture. At 3-5 yards you can fire while pushing the gun toward the target and get good hits quickly. However, this won’t work at extended distances.

Have you ever seen cowboy fast draw shooters? They can get .60 draws. However they are shooting from the hip and the targets are very close. They even shoot wax bullets because the distance is so close.

When you work on the speed of your draw, pick a distance in which you will be required to see the sights. This is more realistic and a better measure of you ability and easier to track your performance. My suggestion would be to practice the draw at 10 yards. When you get comfortable and feel like your times are improving, go back to 25 yards and try and duplicate your draw stroke. Most shooters will subconsciously draw slower from this distance. Realistically, nothing should change except the time it takes you to get a good sight picture. At 10 yards I practice on a 8 inch steel plate, at 25 yards I practice on a pepper popper.

Personally, from 10 yards from concealment I am happy with 1.5 seconds, at 25 yards, 1.6 to 1.7. Can I go faster? Sure, but I am looking for consistency and good hits. Also, I shoot CDP Master.

[lugnut]

+1 to what Sac Law Man said. And practice drawing the fraction of a second you start to hear the beep. Practice going to a clean grip when drawing. Practice a smooth motion from holster to target.. no dipping or pushing the muzzle up. Keep pushing your times in practice while still being in good control. Personally I think this is one thing that is over emphasized with IDPA/USPSA shooters- there is so much room for better overall improvement in other areas- transitions, efficient movement, longer shooting with accuracy, etc. A really fast draw without the other things are... well... useless IMO.

Edited November 25, 2008 by lugnut

[Duane Thomas]

Have you ever seen cowboy fast draw shooters? They can get .60 draws. However they are shooting from the hip and the targets are very close.

Also, the rules in fast draw only state that the shooter cannot be touching the gun butt at the start. So the most common technique to "not touch the gun butt" is to grip the gun in the holster, then open your hand just enough that, while your hand is still encircling the gun butt, it's not actually touching - there's a very thin bit of air between your hand and the gun butt. This is way different than the hands-at-sides or surrender positions typically required in IDPA/USPSA/IPSC, and one reason it's really no trick to do a super-fast draw in, well, fast draw.