CHA-LEE's Tale

[birdog]

I think it is an unnecessary waste of time and particularly of NO value in local matches. If you shoot a Level 2 or 3 match, you expect this scrutiny, no worries. Seems like a power play with little or no real value to our sport at a local event. Consider that some may be shooting for the first time and have no clue about PF.

Rules are rules no matter what level match it is. Seems like the butthurt is from people that were knowingly close to or sub-PF.

Since we allowed shooters to declare their bullet weight, there was still some lying going on with what their bullet weight was. (You know who you are, and I do too.)

I'm not buying the " argument. Additionally, most first time shooters are going to be using factory ammo. I have not seen any factory 9mm or .40 plinking ammo that does not make minor or major PF. WWB comfortably makes PF every time I've seen it chrono'd.

Who said anything about "first time shooters don't have to follow the rules"? Duh!!

[Richc2048]

I haven't heard much about your open gun Cha-Lee. Saving it for next year?

[d_striker]

I think it is an unnecessary waste of time and particularly of NO value in local matches. If you shoot a Level 2 or 3 match, you expect this scrutiny, no worries. Seems like a power play with little or no real value to our sport at a local event. Consider that some may be shooting for the first time and have no clue about PF.

Rules are rules no matter what level match it is. Seems like the butthurt is from people that were knowingly close to or sub-PF.

Since we allowed shooters to declare their bullet weight, there was still some lying going on with what their bullet weight was. (You know who you are, and I do too.)

I'm not buying the " argument. Additionally, most first time shooters are going to be using factory ammo. I have not seen any factory 9mm or .40 plinking ammo that does not make minor or major PF. WWB comfortably makes PF every time I've seen it chrono'd.

Who said anything about "first time shooters don't have to follow the rules"? Duh!!

While your statement regarding first time shooters not knowing about pf didn't explicitly state that, it certainly implied it. Just because someone doesn't know about any rule does not exempt them from it; regardless of what level match it is.

[CHA-LEE]

Birdog> If I did a chrono every match then I would agree that it would be bullshit. But this is the first time that I have seen a mandatory chrono at a local match since I started shooting in 2008. I average attending about 50 local club matches a year as well. So to me, doing this was way past due anyway.

As for pushing new shooters away due to the chrono I disagree. Our game is run by rules. Meeting the minimum power factor is part of the rules and one of the three fundamental tenors of USPSA. Accuracy, Power and Speed. We shouldn't circumvent our rules to bring in new shooters should we? That doesn't make any sense to me for setting the proper values or expectations for new shooters.

I also want to point out that I posted two versions of the match results. The first was with the shooters declared power factor given at sign up and the second version was with the chrono results applied. So I think everyone still got a fair shake in the end even if that included some hard lessons for a few.

[birdog]

I am not looking for a fight; rather, if this is going to become "every other day normal". let it be known. Anyone going to Nationals knows this will happen, therefore, no surprise. To imply, or rather state that some were lying about bullet weights is unnecessarily offensive and downright combative...PERIOD.

Good idea, maybe less than graceful implementation. God bless, be well.

[birdog]

I think it is an unnecessary waste of time and particularly of NO value in local matches. If you shoot a Level 2 or 3 match, you expect this scrutiny, no worries. Seems like a power play with little or no real value to our sport at a local event. Consider that some may be shooting for the first time and have no clue about PF.

Rules are rules no matter what level match it is. Seems like the butthurt is from people that were knowingly close to or sub-PF.

Since we allowed shooters to declare their bullet weight, there was still some lying going on with what their bullet weight was. (You know who you are, and I do too.)

I'm not buying the " argument. Additionally, most first time shooters are going to be using factory ammo. I have not seen any factory 9mm or .40 plinking ammo that does not make minor or major PF. WWB comfortably makes PF every time I've seen it chrono'd.

Who said anything about "first time shooters don't have to follow the rules"? Duh!!

While your statement regarding first time shooters not knowing about pf didn't explicitly state that, it certainly implied it. Just because someone doesn't know about any rule does not exempt them from it; regardless of what level match it is.

Good grief, are you LEO or a lawyer? Damn.

[birdog]

Birdog> If I did a chrono every match then I would agree that it would be bullshit. But this is the first time that I have seen a mandatory chrono at a local match since I started shooting in 2008. I average attending about 50 local club matches a year as well. So to me, doing this was way past due anyway.

As for pushing new shooters away due to the chrono I disagree. Our game is run by rules. Meeting the minimum power factor is part of the rules and one of the three fundamental tenors of USPSA. Accuracy, Power and Speed. We shouldn't circumvent our rules to bring in new shooters should we? That doesn't make any sense to me for setting the proper values or expectations for new shooters.

I also want to point out that I posted two versions of the match results. The first was with the shooters declared power factor given at sign up and the second version was with the chrono results applied. So I think everyone still got a fair shake in the end even if that included some hard lessons for a few.

I am NOT opposed. I agree with the premise, maybe not so much the approach. A heads up, because it is not a normal "local" match protocol may have been more appropriate...that is all.

[d_striker]

Regardless of how often it is done, why does it need to be announced?

As far as people "lying" about their bullet weight, perhaps I should have said "misrepresented." With what I told you in the PM I sent you, I don't think you can disagree.

To me it seems that the only one being oddly combative here is you.

[birdog]

Regardless of how often it is done, why does it need to be announced?

As far as people "lying" about their bullet weight, perhaps I should have said "misrepresented." With what I told you in the PM I sent you, I don't think you can disagree.

To me it seems that the only one being oddly combative here is you.

Oddly combative? What is combative, What is oddly combative? Seems like normal discourse to me. Why ya so "butthurt"? A term I find to be overused by people trying to throw others off their game by suggesting an inappropriate response of being "butthurt". Doesn't work with me pal. Of course, I understand you have no responsibility for the tone of this conversation.

[PatJones]

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Edited May 24, 2016 by PatJones

[Vanniek71]

Good lord Panda, could you stop make waves? Lol

[ATLDave]

I know I wish the locals would have put me through a chrono before I shot my first major. I was nervous enough without the fear of what the chrono (and all related testing/enforcement) would bring. I certainly was aware of PF before I shot my first local match, and was kind of surprised not to have to chrono at every match. I think CHA-LEE did any newish shooters in the match a huge favor. Either they failed chrono, and know they need to change ammo, or they passed and will feel less stress when they go to a major for the first time. And posting scores "as declared" certainly takes away any harshness of result for people who genuinely-but-erroneously thought their ammo would make PF.

[Richc2048]

I chrono at 132-136 every major. I still feel nervous. Like what if.....

[MarkCO]

I say Kudos for running a chrono at a local. There are rules and such for a reason and they should all be applied unilaterally.

[CHA-LEE]

birdog> What difference does it make if the Chrono is announced or not? The bulk of the shooters are using legit ammo anyway so it shouldn't matter to them. If the chrono is announced then the shooters using invalid ammo will bring their "Special" ammo to the chrono and continue to use their cheater ammo in the match. Without a dedicated chrono staff the only way to do a chrono effectively is to do it before the start of the match. Doing it after the match does not work because most shooters bolt as soon as they are done shooting and tearing down stages. Doing it during the match does not work unless you have dedicated match staff to man it and the match would have to be reduced by one stage.

I don't want to turn this into an argument, but I would really like to know why you think announcing that there will be a chrono at a match will improve catching the cheaters?

[CHA-LEE]

I haven't heard much about your open gun Cha-Lee. Saving it for next year?

I am still fiddling with it. I got the ammo sorted out which is good, but I am still trying to figure out the best hammer & recoil spring combo. I moved from a rear biased scope mount to a forward biased one and that smoothed out the dot movement a lot. I am also going to play around with a recoil master spring setup to see if there is anything to gain in using it. I am still in "Fiddle" mode with it.

Another thing keeping me from switching over to Open is getting these new shooting glasses for seeing iron sights. I need to do a lot of shooting with these new glasses to get use to how the sight picture looks now to burn it in as the new normal. That and I enjoy shooting Limited to much to put it on the back burner. All of the major matches I am shooting this year are in Limited so it does not make sense to screw around with Open right now as we are right in the middle of the major match season. I will probably start screwing with the Open gun more when we get towards the end of the year and the major matches are done with.

[Richc2048]

Yup. I figured you liked seeing your sights. You're rocking it this year with your new lens setup!

[CHA-LEE]

I just noticed that my range diary just passed 100,000 views........... WOW!!! I never thought that the adventures of a Big Panda would be so popular.

[RaylanGivens]

I haven't heard much about your open gun Cha-Lee. Saving it for next year?

Another thing keeping me from switching over to Open is getting these new shooting glasses for seeing iron sights. I need to do a lot of shooting with these new glasses to get use to how the sight picture looks now to burn it in as the new normal. That and I enjoy shooting Limited to much to put it on the back burner. All of the major matches I am shooting this year are in Limited so it does not make sense to screw around with Open right now as we are right in the middle of the major match season. I will probably start screwing with the Open gun more when we get towards the end of the year and the major matches are done with.

I use glasses that focus my dominant eye on the front sight to shoot Limited... Similar setup to what you use for Limited... It's the best setup I have found for shooting iron sights.

When I shoot my Open gun with a C-More, I switch to single prescription glasses that are corrected for distance only... If you use your front-sight-focus-only Limited glasses with your Open gun, you won't see the targets or the dot in focus...

My Open gun is actually a Ruger 22/45 with a C-More that I shoot in Steel Challenge... I find it easy to switch from my standard every-day glasses to the distance-only glasses... However, I usually put my "iron sight" prescription glasses on as early as possible before a USPSA match...

[CrashDodson]

Lets talk more about these glasses! Ive been using tape over my left eye because of focus issues. I do wear contacts. So you are wearing glasses with blurred distance vision on your dominate eye? Does this not cause headaches or anything like that?

[CHA-LEE]

Lets talk more about these glasses! Ive been using tape over my left eye because of focus issues. I do wear contacts. So you are wearing glasses with blurred distance vision on your dominate eye? Does this not cause headaches or anything like that?

When I first started using corrective lenses I tried a Monovision setup with a +0.50 in my right eye (dominant) and zero correction in my left. This worked awesome for about 3 shooting sessions. I could see the targets clearly with my Left eye and I could see my sights clearly with my Right eye. But........ After the third time using this Mono vision setup my brain started to flip flop which eye was the dominant one. So I would see either two sets of sights or two targets and it would flip between these on a single array of targets. This craziness actually happened to me in the middle of the Area 2 match this spring. I was forced to fully close my left eye to keep it from happening which in its self is a whole different type of strange peripheral vision limitation. I figured that both of my eyes were too close in dominance to function properly with a Monovision setup. Another very strange thing to deal with on the Monovision setup is that it would take at least 30 - 45 minutes for my eyes to get use to the Monovision setup once I put the glasses on. So if I had to simply throw on the glasses and shot a stage I was toast because I wouldn't have enough time to get use to them.

Next I got a +0.50 put into the Left lens so now both my left and right eyes have the same offset. This enhances my close arms length vision but also makes distance blurry. The distance targets are not too blurry though. Since both eyes are in the same boat from a focal change perspective I don't have the left/right dominance flip flop issue that was happening before. I can see the sights very well with these glasses with both eyes open. The hardest thing for me to get use to is seeing blurry targets when I transition my focus from the sights to the next target during a target to target transition. That and seeing an excessively blurry target with clear sights sight picture. This is forcing me to relearn what an acceptable sight picture really is for any given distance or shooting speed because the sight picture now looks different. The good thing is that it only takes about 5 - 10 minutes for my eyes to get use to the glasses once I put them on and I am yet to have any headaches or eye fatigue from wearing them all day on the range. With the Monovision setup I would get a mild headache and could feel eye fatigue after a long day on the range.

[PatJones]

Have you played with less correction, like a +.25?

[CHA-LEE]

Only at the Optometrist office. A +0.25 didn't seem to promote enough of a sight focus for me. The +0.50 was just enough sight focus without totally destroying distance vision. A +0.75 was awesome for the sights but super blurry distance vision.

I thought about trying a +0.25 in the Left and a 0.50 in the Right to get a mild amount of Monovision but the both eyes at +0.50 seems to be working so I didn't want to change it up again. Its taking longer than I anticipated to relearn the sight picture for calling shots so the less I screw around with the offset the better.

[CrashDodson]

My current issue is with a hard front sight focus I see two of the same target. So currently I am taping my left eye to overcome this....but I would definitely prefer to not have to do that.

[CHA-LEE]

When both of your eyes are close in dominance that creates the "Double Target" situation. Try this, partially close your left eye to the point where you can't focus on anything with it, but you can still see through it peripherally. I do this to force my right eye to be the dominant eye and it resolves the "Double Target" issue without sacrificing the ability to see things peripherally with my left eye.