# of magazines

[ferges99]

I can only find in the rule book where it says you can have only 2 mag carriers on your belt. Can anyone tell me how many mags you can actually have on you during a course of fire? Can you have 2 on your belt and more stuffed in your pockets, or are you limited to only 2 and where in the rules does it say so?

[Jim Watson]

I suppose you could delve that information out of the provision in the rules that "in lieu of ammunition carriers, spare magazines (2), speedloaders (3), and moon clips (3) used in a CoF may be carried in the contestant's pocket.

That in combination with:

"The shooter may carry no more than two spare magazines on the belt." is taken to limit you to three magazines, one in the gun and two reloads.

In practice, you may carry more in your pockets, for such things as Barney Bullets and a reload for the next string in a multi-string stage or a reload for the next stage in a multi-stage hot bay; you just can't reload the gun with them after you have expended your basic load of three magazines' worth on one string or stage.

Now I will agree that rules requiring such interpretation to get to the standard policy and practice are undesirably imprecise, but that is the way it is done.

[MichiganShootist]

two --- only---- two.

But.. if you want to use an extra mag. as a "Barney" mag to top off your gun.... fine.. but you need to stow it in a pocket and if you use in a stage you will be DQed... or at least receive a FTDR.

Drop that extra mag. on the ground during the stage and you will also get a penalty.

Bottom line-- One round in chamber ----one mag in gun---- and two on the belt... " at the LOMR---as the book says.. loaded to division capacity". ..... which means you can use high-cap mags. you just have to down load them to the rules of your division.

[HighVelocity]

two --- only---- two.

But.. if you want to use an extra mag. as a "Barney" mag to top off your gun.... fine.. but you need to stow it in a pocket and if you use in a stage you will be DQed... or at least receive a FTDR.

Drop that extra mag. on the ground during the stage and you will also get a penalty.

Bottom line-- One round in chamber ----one mag in gun---- and two on the belt... " at the LOMR---as the book says.. loaded to division capacity". ..... which means you can use high-cap mags. you just have to down load them to the rules of your division.

The rule book says no more than 2 spare mags on the belt but it doesn't say you can't get your barney mag from your posket and use it in a COF if needed.

[ferges99]

two --- only---- two.

But.. if you want to use an extra mag. as a "Barney" mag to top off your gun.... fine.. but you need to stow it in a pocket and if you use in a stage you will be DQed... or at least receive a FTDR.

Drop that extra mag. on the ground during the stage and you will also get a penalty.

Bottom line-- One round in chamber ----one mag in gun---- and two on the belt... " at the LOMR---as the book says.. loaded to division capacity". ..... which means you can use high-cap mags. you just have to down load them to the rules of your division.

The rule book says no more than 2 spare mags on the belt but it doesn't say you can't get your barney mag from your posket and use it in a COF if needed.

It doesn't say only 2 spare mags, it says only 2 mag carriers on the belt. It does not say you could not have 5 mags in your pockets. At least that's all I can find about it.

[Steve J]

If a shooter fishes a magazine out of a pocket instead of pulling from a mag carrier he's already penalized himself. Why would you do that? Stages are limited to 18 rounds. The rules severely limit steel in a stage. Why would you ever need more than the two on your belt and the one in your gun?

That said. No way whatsoever does the rule book support a procedural penalty, FTDR or DQ for doing so.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

. It does not say you could not have 5 mags in your pockets. At least that's all I can find about it.

It says:

3. In lieu of the use of ammunition carriers, spare magazines

(2), speedloaders (3) and moon clips(3) used in a CoF may be

carried in the contestant’s pockets and used for any IDPA legal

reload.

4. The shooter may carry no more than two spare magazines on

the belt.

Which basically states if you do not use belt ammo carriers, you may carry 2 mags, or 3 speed loaders, or three moon clips in your pockets. It does not say in addition to it says in lieu of.

Regards,

[HighVelocity]

. It does not say you could not have 5 mags in your pockets. At least that's all I can find about it.

It says:

3. In lieu of the use of ammunition carriers, spare magazines

(2), speedloaders (3) and moon clips(3) used in a CoF may be

carried in the contestant’s pockets and used for any IDPA legal

reload.

4. The shooter may carry no more than two spare magazines on

the belt.

Which basically states if you do not use belt ammo carriers, you may carry 2 mags, or 3 speed loaders, or three moon clips in your pockets. It does not say in addition to it says in lieu of.

Regards,

That means if you have ZERO mags on your belt, you can carry them in your pocket instead. It does not say that you cannot have extra mags in your pocket.

[Steve J]

This Rule Clarification Request is en route to IDPA HQ. I'll post the answer.

3. In lieu of the use of ammunition carriers, spare magazines (2), speedloaders (3) and moon clips(3) used in a CoF may be carried in the contestant’s pockets and used for any IDPA legal reload.

4. The shooter may carry no more than two spare magazines on the belt.

Greetings. Recently at a local match I had a shooter with two magazines in magazine carriers on his belt fish a magazine for his reload out of a tight blue jean pocket. The COF only required one reload. It was a 14 round stage, so the shooter gained no advantage. He actually hurt his time. We had coaching moment after the unload-and-show-clear and I thought no more about it until I came across a thread on the Brian Enos forum where an experienced IDPA shooters stated "if you want to use an extra mag. as a "Barney" mag to top off your gun.... fine.. but you need to stow it in a pocket and if you use in a stage you will be DQed... or at least receive a FTDR."

Question: In an IDPA COF, is a shooter limited to the two magazines on his belt (or two in his pockets if he has no mag carriers) and the one in his gun to complete the COF, or may the shooter have additional magazines in pockets for use in the COF?

Question: If the shooter after load-and-make-ready, has two spare magazines on his belt, but he reloads from a third magazine in his pocket is that acceptable or does it warrant a pentalty, and if so what penalty?

Thank you for your time.

Steve Jolly

A17557

[Duane Thomas]

It's always been clear to me that you're only allowed to have two spare magazines to complete the course of fire, whether they're in mag pouches or pockets.

I do feel that some SOs take this to ridiculous extremes. In years past, when I fired a 1911 .45 in IDPA, I came up with - I thought - a wonderful time and labor saving plan. Rather than having to reload magazines after every stage, or fish pre-loaded mags out of a range bag, on the way to the range I just loaded up enough magazines to finish the match and stuffed them into my left rear pants pocket.

As I went up to LAMR, I would have two fully loaded mags in my double mag pouch, a Barney mag in my left front pants pocket. At LAMR, use the Barney mag to load the chamber, then it goes back into the left front pocket, fish a fully loaded mag out of the back pocket and top off the gun. After the stage, the partially loaded mags I've used to complete it get dumped into the range bag, then one more fully loaded spare comes out of the left rear pocket to fill the empty hole in the mag pouch (unless the stage didn't require a reload, natch). Actually, me being me, I'd move the rear mag in the pouch forward, then insert a fresh mag in the rear slot, to ensure I'm rotating every mag through the gun during the match.

The upshot of all this: no need to load mags between stages, no having to fish mags out of the range bag, just dump the partials, okay I'm done at the range bag. I can instantly go do other things while pulling loaded spares out of my pocket. Watch other shooters run the stage, tape targets, whatever.

I had to quit doing this when an SO told me, "You can't have more than two loaded spare magazines on your body at any one time. It's against the rules." I mean, really, as long as I'm not using them during the stage, what difference does it make?

[lugnut]

It's always been clear to me that you're only allowed to have two spare magazines to complete the course of fire, whether they're in mag pouches or pockets.

That's the way I understand it as well.

[CSEMARTIN]

I dropped a barney mag at the OHIO 2005 IDPA Championship and received a procedural. I argued the call, and just about everybody disagreed with me. I dropped ammo, therefore, incurred a legitimate procedural.

If you can get a procedural for losing a barney mag, you ought to be able to shoot those rounds if needed.

[VegasOPM]

I'm back to wondering why?!? If the limit for a stage is 18 rounds, and I have 31 rounds in three mags- why do I need more? Even if I have an Officer's model, I still have 21 rounds.

[ChuckS]

I'm back to wondering why?!? If the limit for a stage is 18 rounds, and I have 31 rounds in three mags- why do I need more? Even if I have an Officer's model, I still have 21 rounds.

22

[lugnut]

I'm back to wondering why?!? If the limit for a stage is 18 rounds, and I have 31 rounds in three mags- why do I need more? Even if I have an Officer's model, I still have 21 rounds.

Have a jam on your first reload so you drop the mag to clear it... that means you only have say 20ish. Just one reason.

[steel1212]

Unless somebody shows me in the rule book, in black and white or implied, that you can't reload from your pocket I won't call it. If you drop your baney mag I'm going to call you for dropping a mag just like any other. What happens when you have a new shooter that has no mags but was just going to reload from the pockets just so he could shoot....we let them. If you tell me its not in the spirit of the game I'd say your nuts as I've typically carry my back up mag either in my 5.11 pants pocket or in a rear pants pocket and I know many that do.

Now as Flex would say "show me the rule" that says they can't load from the pocket.

[lugnut]

Unless somebody shows me in the rule book, in black and white or implied, that you can't reload from your pocket I won't call it. If you drop your baney mag I'm going to call you for dropping a mag just like any other. What happens when you have a new shooter that has no mags but was just going to reload from the pockets just so he could shoot....we let them. If you tell me its not in the spirit of the game I'd say your nuts as I've typically carry my back up mag either in my 5.11 pants pocket or in a rear pants pocket and I know many that do.

Now as Flex would say "show me the rule" that says they can't load from the pocket.

I don't think anyone says you can't reload from your pocket. But you can only have two mags- both in your pocket or both in mag pouches.. that's the way I see it anyway.

[steel1212]

Unless somebody shows me in the rule book, in black and white or implied, that you can't reload from your pocket I won't call it. If you drop your baney mag I'm going to call you for dropping a mag just like any other. What happens when you have a new shooter that has no mags but was just going to reload from the pockets just so he could shoot....we let them. If you tell me its not in the spirit of the game I'd say your nuts as I've typically carry my back up mag either in my 5.11 pants pocket or in a rear pants pocket and I know many that do.

Now as Flex would say "show me the rule" that says they can't load from the pocket.

I don't think anyone says you can't reload from your pocket. But you can only have two mags- both in your pocket or both in mag pouches.. that's the way I see it anyway.

Let me rephrase then. What I mean is I think its perfectly fine for somebody to have 2 on the belt and 20 in their pants pockets. The COF round limit is 18, so the single stack guys shooting CDP have 25 rounds to play with. With most of the IDPA stages I've shot that has been pleanty. BUT, if you have a lot of long distance targets or what not....

With that being said, doesn't the rule stage that you can only have 2 mags on the BELT. Does it say you can't reload from the pocket or even imply that you can't? If you can't reload from the pocket then using that mind set it should be a procedural to even have a mag in the pocket other than on your belt as it shouldn't be there for you to use right?

[lugnut]

Let me rephrase then. What I mean is I think its perfectly fine for somebody to have 2 on the belt and 20 in their pants pockets. The COF round limit is 18, so the single stack guys shooting CDP have 25 rounds to play with. With most of the IDPA stages I've shot that has been pleanty. BUT, if you have a lot of long distance targets or what not....

With that being said, doesn't the rule stage that you can only have 2 mags on the BELT. Does it say you can't reload from the pocket or even imply that you can't? If you can't reload from the pocket then using that mind set it should be a procedural to even have a mag in the pocket other than on your belt as it shouldn't be there for you to use right?

I believe this is what the rulebook says:

In lieu of the use of ammunition carriers, spare magazines (2), speedloaders (3) and moon clips(3) used in a CoF may be carried in the contestant’s pockets and used for any IDPA legal reload.

There is some ambiguity as to whether or not you can't use more than specified for your carriers OR pockets. I'd be curious to see what HQ comes back with!

[Jim Watson]

In Steve J.'s case, my money is on a P.E.

That is what he would get on my range, until such time as RR might pronounce differently.

And a FTDR for the bedroll lawyers who start parsing the rules on the range.

Load from your belt, load from your pocket, but three magazines is what you get to make a maximum of 18 hits.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Jim Watson

[steel1212]

I believe this is what the rulebook says:

In lieu of the use of ammunition carriers, spare magazines (2), speedloaders (3) and moon clips(3) used in a CoF may be carried in the contestant’s pockets and used for any IDPA legal reload.

Page 39 of the 2005 rule book. Well...guess you learn something new everyday! Reading that, and being that they put numbers by the devices, I'm going to say that you can have mags in your pockets but only 2, 3 if revos, if you don't have mag pouches.

[steel1212]

In Steve J.'s case, my money is on a P.E.

That is what he would get on my range, until such time as RR might pronounce differently.

And a FTDR for the bedroll lawyers who start parsing the rules on the range.

Load from your belt, load from your pocket, but three magazines is what you get to make a maximum of 18 hits.

Jim, Say I did shoot all my ammo, 3 mags worth and went to my barney mag. You give me a procedural, me not knowing any better until now, disagreed with the call. Your then going to give me a FTDR?

[RickB]

You get to use three mags during the course of fire. The rules say you can have two on the belt OR two in a pocket ("in lieu" meaning instead-of), and that doesn't mean you can have mags in both places and pick 'n' choose as long as you don't use more than two. If you come to the line with two mags in pouches on your belt, and you draw a mag from your pocket during the course of fire, you earn a PE. That said, if you have a barney mag in your pocket at the start signal, I am not going to ding you for violating the cited rule, if you don't touch it or lose it during the CoF. One of the SO's responsibilities is to ensure the shooter has a good time, and how much fun is it to fish for a single round to top off a mag?

[SDM]

You know, the Uncle Mikes, Fobus, and cheap Bladetech double pouches are right there between $15 and $20. Skip a match, buy the pouch. Then at the next match put two magazines in it. Carry your magazine to load with in your weak hand, and throw a Barney bullet in your shirt pocket. It ain't all that complicated.

If the new guy doesn't have pouches fine or if they can't finish with 25 or 31 rounds use a 4th magazine. By the time you get to that 4th magazine you're not going to be too competitive anyway, and it might keep them encouraged enough to come back next month.

[Steve J]

I dropped a barney mag at the OHIO 2005 IDPA Championship and received a procedural. I argued the call, and just about everybody disagreed with me. I dropped ammo, therefore, incurred a legitimate procedural.

If you can get a procedural for losing a barney mag, you ought to be able to shoot those rounds if needed.

This at least HAS been clarified by HQ. http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/2077

1. if a mag falls from your mag carrier (becomes dislodged), it's an automatic procedural whether you pick it up or not. Call it a gamey gear penalty.

2. a mag with ammo that is stripped from the gun while clearing a jam is considered to be faulty and does not have to be picked up. No penalty.

3. if the COF calls for a mandatory reload with retention, the mag that comes out of the gun has to be stowed before another shot is fired. You can't pull an "oops" and pick it up later. That is a poorly masked speed reload.

4. CSE's case. if a mag with ammo falls to the ground say from a pocket or as a result of a fumbled reload, you have to pick it up and stow it before leaving that shooting position for another, not immediately, just before you depart that area. If your barney falls from your pocket while moving, you have to stop and pick it up if it contains ammo.