Tokarev Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Maybe this has been posted before. If that's the case, I apologize for taking up bandwidth. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Blasphemy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 One man's opinion. Sure, Mike has great and vocal advocates and even better service, but the products do all the talking needed. Just look at any of the Nationals competitor polls. Preaching to the choir, here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Here's the last time we talked about this one: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=681043 Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwit Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I found what he said about the presses mechanically to be very fair and true to the extent of my knowledge, [since I don't have a Hornady press] but I do use Hornady's Lock and Load powder measure on my Dillon since I feel it far more accurate than the Dillon Measure and easier to use. Like a lot of things in life there are trade offs but each has it's place. No one press was superior to another, BUT I am not giving up my 650. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 First thing to note is on the first page he modified the Lee. Powder measures. I have done as much testing as is sanely possible. The Hornady, Lyman, RCBS and Dillon Powder Measures are as accurate as each other, across an enormous range of powders. The Lee? well I have said enough without libelling someone. If you use a progressive reloader use the one that is provided by the manufacturer and the problems will be much reduced. The new Hornady system is much improved over the old one. I can't shoot as good as any of the listed powder measures can measure consistantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Being the owner of a fairly new Dillon 550 and past owner of both a Lee Pro and Lee Loadmaster, I feel at least modestly competent to offer a couple observations. Overall, his comments seemed relatively fair. I cannot speak to the comments on the Hornady since I don't own one, but other comments I have read and other people I have spoken to indicate they are in line. In fact, before buying the Dillon, I was within a hairs breadth of buying a LnL, and would most likely have been very happy with it. My main gripe with his evaluation is that it underplays the number of problems you can have with the Loadmaster and the wasted time fixing them. I bought the Loadmaster because I had outgrown the Lee Pro. For a time, I even had the Lee Pro fitted with a bullet feeder and was able to blow through production of 9mm rounds in record time. But the automation components of both the Pro and Loadmaster, while ingenious, were also a bit quirky. For example, the case feeder on the Lee Pro worked well, but the case feeder on the Loadmaster was more trouble than it was worth. In the end, I disconnected the rod that automatically shoved the cases into position and started doing it by hand. That was when I realized that manual operation, while somewhat slower, made catching and fixing problems easier and faster. Same thing with auto-indexing, the Loadmaster is a bugger when it comes to fixing a problem. There are two things that I do like about the Loadmaster over the 550. --The Loadmaster is a five station press which would allow for the use of something like a lockout die --The Lee collator and case feeder, despite problems, is a marvelous gizmo. I'd love to figure out a way to use it with the 550. So, while I have no personal experience with the LnL, I feel that I can at least say that the 550 is a dramatic step above the Loadmaster. Is it 4 times better (based on price)? That's a very subjective judgment so I will just say that over the long haul, I believe that it will be, otherwise I would not have bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Seems like a fair and objective evaluation. That is increasingly rare and valuable these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Powder measures. I have done as much testing as is sanely possible. The Hornady, Lyman, RCBS and Dillon Powder Measures are as accurate as each other, across an enormous range of powders. I own the Hornady LNL AP and at least one of each Dillon model except the 550. The Hornady powder measure doesn’t like small charges of fast powder with out the extra small powder drum. I was also disappointed that it didn’t work as advertised (or hyped) with extruded powders (the reason I bought it). The failsafe rod is just one other lesson they could learn from Dillon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrashb Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 First thing to note is on the first page he modified the Lee. I didn't modify it, I made it work like it was supposed to (I assume you're talking about cleaning up the primer feed mechanism, removing flash and so on) - unless you mean the .40 slider for the case feeder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrashb Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) My main gripe with his evaluation is that it underplays the number of problems you can have with the Loadmaster and the wasted time fixing them [...] the automation components of both the Pro and Loadmaster, while ingenious, were also a bit quirky. Fair enough - by the time I tried the 650, I may have become somewhat numb to the Loadmaster issues. The phrase "Lee has more stoppages than the other presses", and the footnotes on that page, alludes to the hassle factor while remaining neutral in tone. At least, that was my intent. Edited January 12, 2009 by acrashb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 My main gripe with his evaluation is that it underplays the number of problems you can have with the Loadmaster and the wasted time fixing them [...] the automation components of both the Pro and Loadmaster, while ingenious, were also a bit quirky. Fair enough - by the time I tried the 650, I may have become somewhat numb to the Loadmaster issues. The phrase "Lee has more stoppages than the other presses", and the footnotes on that page, alludes to the hassle factor while remaining neutral in tone. At least, that was my intent. I think you did a swell job. Sounds to me like you tried your best to be honest and forthright in your review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Once the coolaide has been drunk, it cannot be undrunk. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I think I will stick with my XL650 if for no other reason than it matches the blue Maxwellhouse coffee cans I keep my brass in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Fair enough - by the time I tried the 650, I may have become somewhat numb to the Loadmaster issues. The phrase "Lee has more stoppages than the other presses", and the footnotes on that page, alludes to the hassle factor while remaining neutral in tone. At least, that was my intent. Sounds more like you were afraid to tell the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Fair enough - by the time I tried the 650, I may have become somewhat numb to the Loadmaster issues. The phrase "Lee has more stoppages than the other presses", and the footnotes on that page, alludes to the hassle factor while remaining neutral in tone. At least, that was my intent. Sounds more like you were afraid to tell the truth. Damn, Steve.... Go easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Fair enough - by the time I tried the 650, I may have become somewhat numb to the Loadmaster issues. The phrase "Lee has more stoppages than the other presses", and the footnotes on that page, alludes to the hassle factor while remaining neutral in tone. At least, that was my intent. Sounds more like you were afraid to tell the truth. Damn, Steve.... Go easy. I know it sounds bad but I don’t mean it harshly. We spend much of our time "coding" the truth in a way that more palatable to people. Sounds very much like he was afraid of the repercussion of coming out and saying what he really felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Shooters should support loading manufacturers who support shooters with great products, great customer service and who maintain a high profile in the shooting industry...Dillon does those things in SPADES...you can talk on the phone to the owner if need be...try that with anyone else... have used Star, C&H Autochamp, RCBS, Lyman and Dillon...and the winner is...DILLON by a mile... JMO... Tightloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonAnne9x23 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 first, LEE does not have excellent on line guides. Lee OWNERS have produced excellent on line guides. Neither Dillon or Dillon owners have on line guides since they are not needed. I have used Star presses, w & w/o case feeder, w & w/o auto index. I have owned Lee turret press, Lee Auto Index press, Lee Progressive, Lee Pro 1000 and the Loadmaster. I have also owned Dillon 300, 450,550, SDB, and 1050. I owned a Hornady Pro-Jector. I liked the Lee Pro 1000. For the money it is a fine machine. The Loadmaster was a POS. And when you trim flashing etc. you ARE modifying the press. You are not using it as produced/delivered. For the money you should not have to do such modifications. I had a catastrophic failure of the shell plate carrier. It cracked and wound up tilted such that the brass could not line up with the dies! After the success I had with the Pro 1000 I WANTED the Loadmaster to be what it was hyped to be, but it is not. The Hornady was a fine press. I sold it to a buddy who begged me to sell it to him. With the improvements I think it would be a fine choice. Each Dillon was better than the prior one. The 550 I think is excellent for rifle. I prefer 5 stations for pistol but then I went ahead and bought a used SDB to load .45acp on. It was a bargain, only $260. Not 5 stations but for the price I could not pass it up. The RL1050 has been around for a long time. I bought it sometime in the later 1980s. $750 IIRC. Dillon has rebuilt it once, free of charge. The 1050s do not have the NO BS Guarantee since they are considered commercial machines, but they completely refurbished mine to new condition for free. Actually they refurbished two RL1050s for me. I bought a worn out 1050 in .38 Special. It WAS used by a commercial loader for many years. It was completely trashed. I was going to go to the 2001 IRC and I wanted a press in .38sp. I paid $700, took it directly to Dillon and had them work on it. A week or 2 later I got a call to pick it up. When I picked up the .38 Special 1050 I dropped off my 9x23 1050. So they rebuilt 2 "commercial" presses for no charge in one month. Now THAT is customer service! Sadly later, I was injured and off work and sold the .38sp 1050 for $950. I have loaded a bit on the 650 and am impressed by it. The only advantages that I see that the 1050s have over the 650s are: the 1050 seats primers on the down stroke and the primer pocket swager. If the Dillon RL/Super 1050 is a Cadillac, the Star Universal is a Lamborginin Countach. It is beautiful to look at, an exquisite exercise in precision machining. Also like the Countach, it is out of production and very hard to get parts for. My $0.97 worth. ($0.02 adjusted for inflation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeltFed Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 This is my first post here, but I'm not new to reloadig. My first progressive press is a Dillon 400, and it was upgraded to a 450. I had a bunch of trouble with it after it was upgraded, so I bought the first model of the Hornady/Pacific progressive loader (the Pacific Projector I believe). It is the least used press I have. It looked good until I didn't get enough Oneshot lube on a 308 case (my fault) and the case got stuck in the sizing die. I tried to pull the case out by pulling up on the handle (figured it might work). When all of a sudden there was a big bang and the handle went loose. I had sheared off the roll pin that conects the handle linkage to the ram. Turns out, the large ram that is pushed up by the linkage is pulled down by a 1/2" bar conected to the shell plate and conected to the linkage by a 1/8" roll pin. I thought this was a major weakness of the machine, and I stopped using it. I don't know if the new machines still use this design, and I would like to try one out, but I am happy with my 650. However if the design has been changed I might be tempted to try a new Hornady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfturner Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 BeltFed -- the new ones still use that system. I've had my L-n-L for a pretty long while, and I've upgraded it as the upgrades became available (case feeder, new priming system [minor changes], haven't upgraded the shellplate again yet since the new one came out). It was a "pretty good" machine, but I found some issues with it. One big one has been addressed recently, but the others are missing from this review. On the L-n-L there is a star gear that drives a shaft (the 1/2" bar) which is used to advance the shell plate. If there is any wear on the "fingers" that drive the gear, or if they are out of adjustment it will lock the machine up. The second issue is that the case eject system (until recently) would not allow you to use a full length (factory crimp die) in the last station. That is why I'm also the owner of a 650xl now. I can honestly say just looking at the 2 machines from a design engineering perspective Mike did his right, and Hornady is slowly changing theirs to be what his IS. Kinda makes me think of the Camry commercial that's out now "if everyone else is advertising they are just as good as .... why wouldn't I just buy a ... ". It took me a few years to realize this lesson, but I LOVE the Dillon. I have had an inexperienced reloader jam up the priming system once, but once I saw what was going on it was a 2 minute fix. I've had similar problems on the Hornady that took me a couple of hours to fix. Just my $.02. -T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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