USPSA Multi-Gun Nationals

[sniperdog]

M Ammo said that this will be a mid range match with rifle because of the standards. I agree, unless things have really changed at the shootout range there are not many (main range use for HI-power) that go past 200 yds.

Thus making me decide on Rifles to use:

1 my M4 with Eotech (light and really handy)

2 my Saber Competition with 1x4 (because of the scope a little more accurate)

Decisions, Decisions.............whats a bald guy to do ????

HOP

I’m a one game gun guy,,, for now, I’m collecting parts for another toy, but not in time for the Nat’s

I did get out and do some practice on that Rifle Standards stage, I don’t have 300, so just at 75 yds with the 10/22 and at 100yds with my AR. I played with it.

I’m not the speedy, shooter most of you folks are. But I did OK,

7+ and I can get some good hits, but the mag change,, hmmmmmmm

I’ll get out and try kneeling and prone, I’ll give this stage a good.

A good match to be up to speed on your off hand shooting, with all the slugs, as well.

I like that the match is not a pistol match!

Hey squad 3 we are the Jim squad!

Jim M ammo

Looks to me that Squad 3 is the "OTHER SUPER SQUAD" J. Alley

[shopgun]

M Ammo said that this will be a mid range match with rifle because of the standards. I agree, unless things have really changed at the shootout range there are not many (main range use for HI-power) that go past 200 yds.

Thus making me decide on Rifles to use:

1 my M4 with Eotech (light and really handy)

2 my Saber Competition with 1x4 (because of the scope a little more accurate)

Decisions, Decisions.............whats a bald guy to do ????

HOP

I’m a one game gun guy,,, for now, I’m collecting parts for another toy, but not in time for the Nat’s

I did get out and do some practice on that Rifle Standards stage, I don’t have 300, so just at 75 yds with the 10/22 and at 100yds with my AR. I played with it.

I’m not the speedy, shooter most of you folks are. But I did OK,

7+ and I can get some good hits, but the mag change,, hmmmmmmm

I’ll get out and try kneeling and prone, I’ll give this stage a good.

A good match to be up to speed on your off hand shooting, with all the slugs, as well.

I like that the match is not a pistol match!

Hey squad 3 we are the Jim squad!

Jim M ammo

Looks to me that Squad 3 is the "OTHER SUPER SQUAD" J. Alley

Don't I wish. Anyone have any good kneeling tips? I'm only slightly worse at that then offhand. Jim S

[kurtm]

Look for some position pictures for kneeling from NRA or military. Get a ching sling and get pleanty of trigger time! KurtM

[shopgun]

Kurt, thanks. I didn't realize slings were legal in tac/ltd uspsa. Can you start with sling attached? Jim S.

[davidwiz]

Don't I wish. Anyone have any good kneeling tips? I'm only slightly worse at that then offhand. Jim S

Our fearless leader, Michael Voigt, had an article with pictures in Front Sight last year or year before on different rifle shooting positions and use of a sling.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Entry going in today to beat the the "early entry" deadline.

Hey Jim, I'm in!! Now, I just gotta get squaded with ya brother.

Anyone have a limited pistol I can borrow - mine took a dump at the TX State Limited.

[lmccrock]

Match hotel list is up. If you waited this long, there may be slim pickins'. I also just sent the app in to beat the price increase, but I made a reservation at the Rodeway a few weeks ago.

Can you start with sling attached?

From the 2008 Rifle rules:

5.1.10.1 Bi-pods, monopods, slings, ammo/mag holders, flash lights are allowed to be added or removed at any time during the match, providing that they are allowed in the entered division.

8.2.6 Bi-pods must be folded; slings must be in the carry condition (not looped around elbows, etc.) at the start of every string or stage unless otherwise specified in the stage description.

I categorize multi-gun matches 2 ways: sling, and non-sling. I have never been to a USPSA match where a sling was an advantage, and usually it gets in the way. The standards stage may be the first.

Lee

[davidwiz]

I was telling my gf about this thread (specifically about the steel "standards" stage). She agreed with a lot of the comments posted that if the purpose of the stage is to frustrate and PO people, it will probably do the job - that the purpose of a stage is not to see how many people will zero it (I know you can't "zero" the stage in the technical sense under the rules).

[dt1]

Anyone heard any skinny on the distances of the slug shots? I believe I counted 3 stages with slugs.

[scottmilk9]

It seems i'm the only one looking forward to the standards! On the first string it says"must start from behind the fault line" or something to that nature. It doesn't say you can not start from the prone. I'm anxious to see who comes the closest to zero'ing the stage. I also think that the 1st string is the hardest with a reload, the other two do not have reloads. Also the distance and target size is a factor. We'll see everyone in a few weeks.

[shopgun]

It seems i'm the only one looking forward to the standards! On the first string it says"must start from behind the fault line" or something to that nature. It doesn't say you can not start from the prone. I'm anxious to see who comes the closest to zero'ing the stage. I also think that the 1st string is the hardest with a reload, the other two do not have reloads. Also the distance and target size is a factor. We'll see everyone in a few weeks.

From the downloaded stage page: Start position- STANDING in box, facing downrange.-GUN READY CONDITION-Loaded as per rule 8.1, RIFLE AT PORT ARMS.

[scottmilk9]

details details. LOL thanks for catching that shopgun. I was only looking at stage procedure. Does anyone know the distances?

[sniperdog]

details details. LOL thanks for catching that shopgun. I was only looking at stage procedure. Does anyone know the distances?

I think it is 2 targets at 300 yds, 2 at 200yds and 2 at 100 yds

[Wakal]

Does anyone else think that most of the stages look like they are for SASS shooters?

[shopgun]

Actually, I kind of like the SG stages where SHOOTING and not RELOADING is the main thrust. (even though I have been peacticing the hell out of my SG reloads)

[Wakal]

I was thinking more of the "shoot these eight with rifle, put down the rifle and draw your pistol then shoot these eight, then pick up your shotgun and shoot these eight" sort of stages...but yes, the round counts are very low.

I like to SHOOT, darn it

A

[00bullitt]

I was thinking more of the "shoot these eight with rifle, put down the rifle and draw your pistol then shoot these eight, then pick up your shotgun and shoot these eight" sort of stages...but yes, the round counts are very low.

I like to SHOOT, darn it

A

Me too......but I think they are looking at reset times and how many shooters they can move through a stage in an hour. I for one hate backups on stages and all too often they are overkilled with hard to reset stages mostly due to high round counts. And considering its a multi gun match and not a 3 gun match it just adds that much more time to each stage for clearing and staging guns. Leave the high round count stages to the outlaw matches.

[hopalong]

Cowboy action with modern equipment.

I'm Game.

Still yet to shoot my mouse gun, but who needs practice ?

See you there.

HOP

[jdtravers]

Don't see a whole lota bang for the buck here. Too much staging of hot weapons and clearing of weapons when it is done like this and very little trigger time. This will probably be the least amount of shooting time at any match I have been to in all my years of competition. The over all average is arround 20 rounds per stage. About like a military haircut, get you in and out real quick.

Open Divison is neutralized and won't really be a challenge, just a hoser match. Think I will switch to Tactical Division and at least try to make it a little challenging and fun. Seems like its all about the money lately at the top level of USPSA and too many rules. Do believe I will just stick with the International and Outlaw 3-gun matches after this Nationals. Sorry, I haven't had a bad/negative piss pore attitude like this in years about spending good money and going to shoot a competition and being manipulated to have to stay one extra day for one f#@king stage. Oh Well!!!! I don't care about prize tables and such, I shoot for the love of the sport.

JT

[jdtravers]

Don't see a whole lota bang for the buck here. Too much staging of hot weapons and clearing of weapons when it is done like this and very little trigger time. This will probably be the least amount of shooting time at any match I have been to in all my years of competition. The over all average is arround 20 rounds per stage. About like a military haircut, get you in and out real quick.

Open Divison is neutralized and won't really be a challenge, just a hoser match. Think I will switch to Tactical Division and at least try to make it a little challenging and fun. Seems like its all about the money lately at the top level of USPSA and too many rules. Do believe I will just stick with the International and Outlaw 3-gun matches after this Nationals. Sorry, I haven't had a bad/negative piss pore attitude like this in years about spending good money and going to shoot a competition and being manipulated to have to stay one extra day for one f#@king stage. Oh Well!!!! I don't care about prize tables and such, I shoot for the love of the sport.

JT

Hey, feel kinda bad about my negative feeling toward this Multigun Nationals, especially for any new shooters that read this. But seriously, we are paying the same entry fee as the Limited, Open/L-10, Production Nationals, and getting 1/3 less shooting time. 19 stages versus 12 and we are still out there for 3 days.

Add 4-5 more stages and now it becomes a quality match. Also, it appears to me someone is trying to level the playing field across the board. This is why we have different divisions. Let the HiCaps run!!

If this venue will not handle a national level event, then USPSA owes it to it's members to find a venue to host the Multigun Nationals that will set the example for a National Level Event. Need to take a few lessons from the Area 6 guys, always a quality event!

Jack

[dt1]

Wow Jack, it got kind of quiet after your first post

If you want to shoot an outlaw match with lots of trigger time, come shoot rifles with us at Steel City in Birmingham. We have 'em on months with a 5th Saturday, the next big one will be in May '09. One day format with 150 -200 or so rounds.

See you in Shreveport.

David Tapp

[jdtravers]

I don't want to get off the thread David, but I am over in Area 4 Now. I was abandoned here at Fort Polk, LA., by my oldest son, when he up and left for the Special Forces Qualification Course at Fort Bragg.

Back to the Multigun Nationals. Sorry if I hurt some feelings here, but the more I look at these stages, this match is an embarrassment. Absolutley no creativity, no door entrys, nothing but partitions and cookie cutter stages. Looks like a mediocre local match without a lot of props.

It appears the Multigun Nationals stand in the shadow of the Handgun Nationals and are an afterthought. I am more excited about the Arkansa Section Multigun Championship, Area 6 and Fort Benning, than the Nationals. That's not the way it is supposed to be.

The USPSA Multigun Nationals needs to be a match that other matchs may be judged by. I put the blame for this at the top management level of USPSA. There are two major events during the year which the USPSA can show what it's made of to the membership and this is one of them.

Great job guys!!!

Never having been one to sit on the sidelines, and since I have opened my mouth, I need to start looking into running for the Area Director Position during the next election. Now, you guys up in Arkansas need to get David Hyden to run for president. I hear he is about to reitre anyway. Would be a great position for him and USPSA.

Regards,

JT

[chendersby]

I don't want to get off the thread David, but I am over in Area 4 Now. I was abandoned here at Fort Polk, LA., by my oldest son, when he up and left for the Special Forces Qualification Course at Fort Bragg.

Back to the Multigun Nationals. Sorry if I hurt some feelings here, but the more I look at these stages, this match is an embarrassment. Absolutley no creativity, no door entrys, nothing but partitions and cookie cutter stages. Looks like a mediocre local match without a lot of props.

It appears the Multigun Nationals stand in the shadow of the Handgun Nationals and are an afterthought. I am more excited about the Arkansa Section Multigun Championship, Area 6 and Fort Benning, than the Nationals. That's not the way it is supposed to be.

The USPSA Multigun Nationals needs to be a match that other matchs may be judged by. I put the blame for this at the top management level of USPSA. There are two major events during the year which the USPSA can show what it's made of to the membership and this is one of them.

Great job guys!!!

Never having been one to sit on the sidelines, and since I have opened my mouth, I need to start looking into running for the Area Director Position during the next election. Now, you guys up in Arkansas need to get David Hyden to run for president. I hear he is about to reitre anyway. Would be a great position for him and USPSA.

Regards,

JT

Jack

Don't be so quick to trash this match based on the stage descriptions. We all know they are not worth the paper they are printed on. USPSA has always been about shooting not door breaching, throwing grenades and stabbing targets with knives. Don't get me wrong, that stuff is fun and I enjoy shooting the IMGA matches. No one wants a repeat of last years match and the match directors know it. Pictures rarely accurately show the true shooting challenges that a stage has to offer. I would wait until after the match before throwing it under the bus. Trust me, if the match sucks I will be the first to say it when the time comes.

[jdtravers]

Chris,

I hear what you are saying. I have no doubt the match will be fun. The people have busted their butts at the local area to do a thankless job as always and I have no doubt their efforts are second to none.

You guys have also set a standard for quality matches over at Area 2 without a doubt.

But, here is the but, this is a National Level Match, not an Area Match. It would be a great Area Match, but it is not up to a National Level Standard. USPSA has an obligation to put on the best competition possible for their members. Each year should be better than the last one. Lessons learned so to speak.

I don't see it.

And yes, the stage diagrams are maybe not what they could or should be but I would have to say they are probably a pretty good representation of what to expect. Here again we are talking about a National Level Match, the stage diagrams are an extension of the professionalism exhibited by the USPSA. Maybe it would be better not to even post the stage diagrams ahead of time. Wait till registration.

That is another discussion.

Enough. Let's see what happens! All my equipment is running like it should (at last) and I have not been this mentally fired up since I came back from spending two years in Sudan/Darfur as a US Military Advisor. The last year and a half of shooting has seemed kind of petty and all of a sudden I feel that addrealine/excitement again. Hope I don't have to stir up the pot every time just to get up for a match. Just kidding!

Sorry if I offended anyone, that was/is not my intention. Just want to see us put on the best matches we are capable of and make this the best damn sport out there. Still if anyone is upset with my opinion, I will be on squad 8. But just so you know, Dean Makos said you gotta go thru him to get to me. Go get em Dean. Hope everyone has fun, be safe and I wish our brothers a quick recovery down in Beaumont, Orange, and southern Texas in general after the Hurricane.

JT

Edited September 18, 2008 by jdtravers

[BPiatt]

Hey, on that Rifle Standards... I'm not up-to-date on USPSA scoring. What happens with late shots?

Do they take away a hit or just dont' count that particular late shot hit?

What I'm getting at is, say I hit the close targets and throw two hail marry's out at 300, miss AND go overtime, do they take away my close hits?