Most advantageous point to reload

[Sac Law Man]

Here is the scenario...you are moving to P2 with a fully loaded gun and are faced with a set of 3 targets at P2, and another set of three at P3. There is cover at P2 but none between P2 and P3. How many would fire their six shots and move to P3 and go to slide lock to fire the remaining targets, and how many would do a reload after P2 and go to P3 with a fully loaded gun?

[Catfish]

It depends on how much room is between the two positions. For me, I need more than 3-4 steps to stow the mag from a RWR or TL. I found that it was rarely worth the time to try and do and slide lock was almost always faster, if given the choice.

[Gregg K]

I would have to reload before moving to P3 but that is life shooting a revolver.

Shooting an auto loader I would definitely run to P3 and then shoot to slide lock. You would have to stand flat footed at P2 and complete your reload before moving to P3. It's a waste of time to stand there reloading. I don't know anyone who does a tac loader faster than a slide lock reload.

[Joe4d]

As stated no cover so you cant reload on the way, but it does depend on the size of the P2 and P3 cover. If they are walls with more than a few steps behind cover RWR if it is simply barrels I would shoot 6 run to P3 shoot 4 SLR and 2 on last target. ( I shoot a 9+1 gun)

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Here is the scenario...you are moving to P2 with a fully loaded gun and are faced with a set of 3 targets at P2, and another set of three at P3. There is cover at P2 but none between P2 and P3. How many would fire their six shots and move to P3 and go to slide lock to fire the remaining targets, and how many would do a reload after P2 and go to P3 with a fully loaded gun?

I would fire my six shots, reload and move to P3 Nice revolver friendly stage

Edited July 21, 2008 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[Bob Hostetter]

Rarely is there an advantage to doing anything other then a slide lock reload.

[p99shooter]

Here is the scenario...you are moving to P2 with a fully loaded gun and are faced with a set of 3 targets at P2, and another set of three at P3. There is cover at P2 but none between P2 and P3. How many would fire their six shots and move to P3 and go to slide lock to fire the remaining targets, and how many would do a reload after P2 and go to P3 with a fully loaded gun?

Are you planning on shooting on the move between P2 and P3? Is there cover at P3?

There are very vew times that the retention reloads will be better than a slide lock. The only times that I can think the retention reloads are better is when you will be faced with running dry on a dissapearing target.

[RobMoore]

The tac-load isn't worth it without 6+ feet of movement to be done during it.

[Sac Law Man]

I agree there needs to be sufficient space to make the tac laod worth it. What if P3 was to be shot kneeling, would that change things. Certainly there would be a little added time to a slide lock reload from a kneeling position..

[Bob Hostetter]

Unless it's a really unusual kneeling position there shouldn't be any additional time in a kneeling reload.

[Aristotle]

Agreed. I would shoot the six and bolt to the next position and go to slide lock.

[want2race]

There a few times I've used a tac or RWR to good advantage. Nothing in the rules say I HAVE to shoot with both hands. I've done a tactical reload on the way down a wall (target out of sight), shot the last target with the magazine in my hand, hand in pocket. Just shot it SHO. Saved a shot-cover- reload-shot. Huge time savings.

[Blueridge]

I have to agree with the revolver shooters......Because I am one.

[RobMoore]

If you want to make a tac-load worth it, make T6 a dissapearing target. You could also make P2 and P3 optional as to which the shooter goes to first, but make P2 a low cover position. The shooter must decide if they want to do the P3 array with the dissapearing target first, move to P2 kneeling, do the slide lock reload there, or start with P2, have to do a tac-load kneeling, then move to the P3 array ready to finish. To balance the advantage out, P2 is closer to the start position than P3.

[Duane Thomas]

Shoot to slidelock at P3, definitely. Bascially it comes down to which type of reload is faster, RWR or slidelock. And we all know the answer to that.

[Jim Watson]

I've done a tactical reload on the way down a wall (target out of sight), shot the last target with the magazine in my hand, hand in pocket

Sorry, want, you don't have to shoot with both hands but the above does not comprise "stowing the magazine" in my book.

What say you other SOs?

[Greg Bell]

As long as the mag is in the pocket it's stowed, IMO.

[Punkin Chunker]

There a few times I've used a tac or RWR to good advantage. Nothing in the rules say I HAVE to shoot with both hands. I've done a tactical reload on the way down a wall (target out of sight), shot the last target with the magazine in my hand, hand in pocket. Just shot it SHO. Saved a shot-cover- reload-shot. Huge time savings.

Wow. Interesting point -- from the book:

Proper Magazine Retention: A place for a partially loaded magazine to be stowed before firing the first shot after a reload. These places include: pants pocket; vest pocket; jacket pocket; waistband; magazine pouch. The use of specially designed pockets, shirt pockets, upper vest pockets, hands or teeth is NOT permitted.

So on a technicality -- in hand (even in pocket) is NOT permitted. Stowed seems to imply in a place intended for storage/carrying, without manual retention.

Not an SO, just a shooter trying to understand the rules

[RobMoore]

Just how "in the pocket" are we talking about. As the SO, if your hand was all the way into your pocket with the mag, I don't think I'd call you, but if it were just barely in the pocket to the point that if you let go of the mag it could fall to the ground, you're getting dinged.

I see the time savings with SHO, but not with keeping your hand in the pocket, unless its in an effort to "stow" your weak hand and not have to think about it and what to do with it.

[mjoy64]

Rarely is there an advantage to doing anything other then a slide lock reload.

For IDPA... +1!!

[kdmoore]

Likely best going to slide lock.

However, remember you can draw a mag, catch the used mag in your hand and seat the fresh mag, then move to forward cover while stowing the partial mag. Makes the difference in reload speeds slightly less. Now, imagine that the forward shooting position requires an awkward stance .... It's possible you'd be better off.

But that's a lot of complexity to try and shave a half second .... better just to go to slide lock.

Or you could time yourself during your practice sessions ....

Edited July 26, 2008 by kdmoore

[Alfie]

Shoot to slidelock at P3, definitely. Bascially it comes down to which type of reload is faster, RWR or slidelock. And we all know the answer to that.

I want to throw a monkey wrench into this theory. At the range I shoot at, we shoot through windows all winter long and b/c of that we do a lot of tac reloads. This past winter in preparation for the IDPA Indoor Nationals we did some drills and got our reloads skills to a point where we could shoot from behind a barricade and do a tack reload faster then a slide lock reload. The scenario was fire two shots to the left, reload and then fire two to the right vs. firing two to the left, transition to the right for one shot, sldielock reload and then fire another shot.

So now I'm pretty confident in my tac reloads and will try to do one any time I can if it will give me an advatage. In most cases there isn't cover or due to stage layout it isn't practicle however if I can properly perform a tac reload and avoid re-acquiring a sight picture I do it. It's important to menatally break down a stage to find the point where a reload will take place and then to actually do it there when firing the stage.

So, my two points are: #1, a shooter can hone the skills to perform a tac reloads as fast as or faster then a slide lock reload. #2, if there is a point in the stage to perform a tac reload to avoid the time it takes to acquire a new sight picture then yu should do it.....

BTW, my tac reload is a reload with retention, a true tac reload is too much eye/hand coordination for my little brain to handle.

[RobMoore]

You can make a tac-load faster than a slide lock---- if you never practice doing a slide lock reload.

[Alfie]

You can make a tac-load faster than a slide lock---- if you never practice doing a slide lock reload.

We practised both. Our intent was to find what was faster not what looked cooler. We ran a timer and looked for two -0 hits. We ran the drill abotu 10 times each.

[RobMoore]

...and what were the times?