BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) Forgive the ramblings. Bummer of a day. Went to our local Sheriff's range for an open public practice and some nitwit had snuck in over the weekend and destroyed all the steel at close range with .223 rounds. Ergo, no more steel at the range for the forseeable future. Then I went to pick up the 1100 Tac 4 that came in for me at my local shop. Bummer #2. The oversize bolt latch broke off in shipping and...what the hey...it had a *#@&^ plain bead front sight! After scrutinizing the Remington Web site, I now realize that the spec sheets say bead, but the photos in the brochures and Web site show a fiber optic, like on the old CMs. From Patrick's book, apparently late model Remington vent rib beads are soldered, not screwed in. So some additional hassle and expense to change (either pay a smith or buy the tools for DIY). Since the gun has to be returned anyway due to shipping damage, I'm wondering whether I should just built a new comp gun from an older 1100 and get it the way I want it, rather than pay extra to fix a new gun the way I wanted it. Save a few bucks in the bargain. Or maybe just save up for a Benelli and go with the flow I've read on the forum here at least one person with a new 1100 Tac 4 saying it had fiber optics, as well as elsewhere IIRC. Anyone want to chime in or am I just deluded in extremis. Anyway, after having made up my mind, I now have a second chance to puzzle over the whole thing this evening and maybe change my mind...again...as long as I decide by Thursday morning when my local gun shop opens. Help a brother out, would ya, with some good advice and ideas. And you Benelli guys, when you chime in, and I know you will, what would be an economical setup...barebones is OK as long as I can add a Nordic tube. I can probably stretch as far as a grand, but $900 would feel a lot better if I give up on the new Tac 4 at $800. I've run my 870 pump up to it's limits so I looking to go semi-auto and soon. Thanks in advance and EDITED: because I hate typos! Edited July 10, 2008 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) Go to Gunbroker and look up Benelli m1, last few weeks there have been 24" barrel guns for as little as 500.00 a beautiful M1 Field was going for 650.00 with a 24" barrel. after purchasing a tube you're at an additional 100.00 or so, and you are ready to play the SG game, have rear sight put on it if you choose, another 30.00ish for sight and labor. really can't say enough good things about the old M1, its like a chevy small block, they're just good. the Field gun is there right now, and just below it is a 26" gun for 525.00, for that money you can have it shortened and still come out good. trapr Edited July 10, 2008 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Go to Gunbroker and look up Benelli m1, last few weeks there have been 24" barrel guns for as little as 500.00 a beautiful M1 Field was going for 650.00 with a 24" barrel.after purchasing a tube you're at an additional 100.00 or so, and you are ready to play the SG game, have rear sight put on it if you choose, another 30.00ish for sight and labor. really can't say enough good things about the old M1, its like a chevy small block, they're just good. the Field gun is there right now, and just below it is a 26" gun for 525.00, for that money you can have it shortened and still come out good. trapr Thanks, trapr, I was just poking around on gunbroker in another browser window. From past searches on BENOS, I got the impression that a used Field with the 24" barrel would be a good base Benelli on a budget. I appreciate the advice. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I would find a Remmy from the 1970s or older But I am funny that way Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) I would find a Remmy from the 1970s or older But I am funny that way Jim I hear ya, Jim. I like Remingtons. My Wingmaster 870 is a late fifties, early sixties pawn shop gun I picked up a few years ago. Well used slick action now sporting synthetic furniture, a Choate +4, Nordic clamp, six pack sidesaddle and 21 replacement barrel with rifle sights. It can carry me as far as mid pack against the semis. Got my first ruffed grouse with a Wingmaster 870 back when I was a lad. I'm really puzzling over this because the budget allows one acquisition for the foreseeable future and I want it to be a semi SG. Edited July 10, 2008 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Whatever you choose...I hope it serves you well Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Spoke like a true gentleman, Jim. I'll suss my thinking by the end of the evening, thanks to the Internet and a few glasses of wine Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I have an 870 Turkey that had a front bead sight. It was screwed on. Unscrewed it and put on a FO front. Don't see why Remington would solder on the front sight on a 1100 and not use solder on an 870. You can go to the Remington website and ask them. ASK REMINGTON A QUESTION. They usually give an answer in 2-3 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 I have an 870 Turkey that had a front bead sight. It was screwed on. Unscrewed it and put on a FO front.Don't see why Remington would solder on the front sight on a 1100 and not use solder on an 870. You can go to the Remington website and ask them. ASK REMINGTON A QUESTION. They usually give an answer in 2-3 days. Don't have the gun to check. I was going on the info in Patrick Sweeney's book so that info could be out of date. All I have here is an old 870 barrel with a bead that appears to be soldered or pressed in. Appreciate the info and I will check with Remington. Guess I'm going to pass on having the shop reorder a 1100 Tac 4 for the moment and reconsider my opinions, which at this point are leaning equally as much towards either a used 1100 (to build up) or a Benelli M1 w/ a 24" barrel. Thanks, all, for the ideas and info. I'll keep you posted how it all shakes out later. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 If you are still looking for a shotgun check out the FN SLP Mark1. For just over the price of that remington it has fiber optic front bead and about everything else you need. It seems to share the good virtues of both the Remington and the Benelli. Even has a flip up rear sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) I noticed on the forum that one of our local guys is running that same gun, IIRC, but I haven't heard a lot about them. Didn't get to see it in action at our latest 3-gun match because he was in a different squad. Are mag extensions and parts easily obtainable? Would be interested in your impressions about it. Curtis EDITED: because I hate typos! Edited July 10, 2008 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 It already has an 8+1 tube from the factory, 22" bbl, comes with pistons for heavy and light loads, two chokes (IC/Mod.) Fiber opt front and flip up rear, recoil pad. Progressive machine makes a oversize bolt release and Briley makes an oversize bolt handle (unneccessary IMOH) mine cost me $850.00. There are some top dogs using this shotgun to very good effect. By contrast my Bennelli cost me about $1600.00 to get to the same level this gun comes out of the box at. An added bonus is that FN supports our sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) It already has an 8+1 tube from the factory, 22" bbl, comes with pistons for heavy and light loads, two chokes (IC/Mod.) Fiber opt front and flip up rear, recoil pad. Progressive machine makes a oversize bolt release and Briley makes an oversize bolt handle (unneccessary IMOH) mine cost me $850.00.There are some top dogs using this shotgun to very good effect. By contrast my Bennelli cost me about $1600.00 to get to the same level this gun comes out of the box at. An added bonus is that FN supports our sport. Thanks, buddy, that does sound like a great setup. I guess I now have one more SG to add to the consideration list Originally, I was primed to pull the trigger on a 1100 Tac 4 purchase, and had been for a while. Advantages: familiarity with the Remington platform, plenty of info on how to avoid their shortcomings (maintenance and cleaning of gas system in particular), easy parts availability at low cost for a DIYer like myself, easy to come by, affordable, 22" barrel and other features pretty close to what I'd want out of the box. And, to repeat myself, the comfort of familiarity (sheesh, I must really be getting old ) Disadvantages: Need to stay on top of maintenance issues for reliability and parts breakage when put to heavy use. A wash: Remington supports our support...I just wish they also supported the quality they had in the old guns. I guess cost has reared it's ugly head again. Trapr and others on the board have always made a good case for the Benelli M1 (or M2). Advantages: modern, rugged action with proven track record for reliability under heavy use. Definitely kinda cool (heck, I used to have a garage full of both vintage and modern Italian motorcycles). Disadvantages: Cost (unless I can find a desirable gun like this used); lack of familiarity with the platform (different controls and maintenance compared to what I'm used to); don't like to support companies who don't support our sport. Neither here nor there: rep for heavier recoil...but I shoot and like a 870 pump now with no problem, so it can't be THAT bad. Now the FN is tossed into the picture. Seems like a nice setup from the box, price is about right, but utter unfamiliarity means a little discomfort...guess it's time for even MORE research. According to the FN Web site the current? model has a rifled barrel...I would definitely prefer non-rifled. Thanks again to all for the opinions...even if you made what was an originally simple decision decidely more complex...but that was what I was looking for so I make the right decision, ultimately. Curtis EDITED: because I hate typos...and obviously am a lousy proof reader when I lose sleep thinking about shotguns Edited July 10, 2008 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 BayouSlide The FN SLP also comes with regular barrel. There is one on Gunbroker right now for a "buy it now" for around $700.00 I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Ellis Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Give me a minute to put my flame suit on and I'll throw out my opinions. I don't care for the Benelli mechanics. Out of the box they tend to need 3 dram loads to operate reliably. The felt recoil is greater than with a gas gun. And there is something wrong with having to buy a $1000 shotgun then having it sent off for another $1000 worth of gunsmithing to make it 3-gun compatiable. But it is better than the next alternative. The Rem 1100/1187 platform has been around forever and that is its downfall. The gas system is an ancient design. It requires a lot of maintenance to keep running. Technology has moved on and there are better gas systems out there. My Beretta for clays gets a cleaning every 1,000 rounds and the gas valve every 5,000 rounds. Post range trip maintenance is two passes with the boresnake and two drops of oil on the bolt. Try that with a 1100 and it will choke. The advantages of the 1100 platform is that there are a billion aftermarket parts, it is easy to work on, and it doesn't cost a lot. My preference today is the Win SX2 Practical/FNH SLP. Modern gas operation. Low maintenance. Ready to go out of the box. Reasonable price. Problem is that there isn't as much in the aftermarket if you want to step it up. However I haven't found anything that I need to modify yet. It will eat most everything I've stuffed in it. It short cycled on one 1oz trap load from some unknown manufacturer but it has run with any 2.75 dram 1.125oz load I've used. Even elcheapo Wally World bulk packs which has zero quality control. I do step it up to a better quality hull for matches just to take the ammunition variable out of the equation. CDNN is listing the FNH SLP MKI on page 47 in the #3 catalog for 2008. If I recall the price is somewhere around $750. A tweak in the BATF import rules now prohibit extended magazine capacity shotguns for import. This shuts down further importation of the SLP and similiar guns. Thats why the SX2 Practical isn't in the catalog anymore. As the SX2 Practical is nothing more than a rebranded SLP and the SLP wasn't made in the US. I really wish some US manufacturer would step up to the plate and produce a non-LEO/Military tactical shotgun with a modern gas design. The technology is there and the market is there. I'm keeping an eye on S&W. They have built a factory in Turkey and are producing a line of their own design. No rebranded stuff here. Nothing yet but maybe down the road a M&P-12 may be in the catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Contrary to popular belief, Benellis DON'T need $1000.00 worth of work to be ANYTHING compatable. The gun I used to win the English open for 3 years is a bone STOCK M1 w/ a 24" barrel. The Shotgun I won SMM3G twice with, was a BONE STOCK M1 w/ a 21" barrel. The VERY few modifications I have done to it now are more to show off sponsor's work than to make it race ready. Where does this Idea come from?? Kurt "Mr. Weakhand" Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I just went to the FN website, and it says SLP Rifled Barrel, but it comes with Invector choke tubes in IC and Mod. That seems very strange. A choke on the end of a rifled barrel? They must be referring to the rifle type sights, and rifling in the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Contrary to popular belief, Benellis DON'T need $1000.00 worth of work to be ANYTHING compatable. The gun I used to win the English open for 3 years is a bone STOCK M1 w/ a 24" barrel. The Shotgun I won SMM3G twice with, was a BONE STOCK M1 w/ a 21" barrel. The VERY few modifications I have done to it now are more to show off sponsor's work than to make it race ready. Where does this Idea come from?? Kurt "Mr. Weakhand" Miller Bone stock with a magazine tube added! IMHO the FN SLP is the best buy going for 3 gun. You buy it, open the box, zero the rear sight, start racing. Daniel Horner seems to do pretty well with his! And FN does support the sport. That being said, I prefer my Benelli but it does require an extended mag tube and my Benelli requires sporting clay level loads to run reliably (although many others do not). I also added a real sight (XS express). Remmies? Sorry I like to shoot them but I just can't recommend them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I bought a Winchester SX2 MKI Practical a few years ago that is made by and is the exact same shotgun as the FN SLP . I took it out of the box, put a side saddle on it, and shot it and shot it and shot it some more, all without a single failure of any kind! In fact, I let a buddy borrow match and I told him "if it breaks, don't call me because I have never needed to fix it and don't know how!" These guys go on and on and on about their pizza guns... okay, I'm sure they're great guns, but you can't do better than perfect performance and that's what I've been getting out of mine and I paid a LOT less. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 So I guess Belgian food is better than pizza?? Cause Winchester ain't made here! Yes Kelly I did add a tube, just like an 1100/1187 user has to, just like a Browning Gold shooter has to, just like any fill-in-the-blank made shotgun does, or accept the mag tube it comes with. KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 If I buy a Benelli will someone take all the o-rings, parts and Remington tools I've been collecting off my hands at a fair price Hank has offered to let me try out his FN. But I forgot to ask him abut the whole rifled barrel thing. I wasn't trying to start Shotgun Wars III, but am really appreciating the alternative ideas. This forum is like a virtual 24/7 conversation over with buddies...including the good-naturing squabbling over whose iron is best! Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 On a second search of the FN site, I found a different page through a different link which showed four models, including the one with the standard barrel: http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms...amp;mid=FNM0019 in case anyone else wants to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJT Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I've read on the forum here at least one person with a new 1100 Tac 4 saying it had fiber optics, as well as elsewhere IIRC. Anyone want to chime in or am I just deluded in extremis. Bayou, The 1100 Tac 4 I just bought has a fiber optic front sight. In fact I just replaced the factory green light pipe with an orange one. They are HiViz sights. I'll put it up against any of the Benelli shooter's I shoot 3 gun with, anyday. I've had no problems with it. I paid $770 for it out the door from a local dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 I've read on the forum here at least one person with a new 1100 Tac 4 saying it had fiber optics, as well as elsewhere IIRC. Anyone want to chime in or am I just deluded in extremis. Bayou, The 1100 Tac 4 I just bought has a fiber optic front sight. In fact I just replaced the factory green light pipe with an orange one. They are HiViz sights. I'll put it up against any of the Benelli shooter's I shoot 3 gun with, anyday. I've had no problems with it. I paid $770 for it out the door from a local dealer. Green furniture/black receiver or the current black furniture/black receiver....still trying to convince myself re: deluded in extremis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Contrary to popular belief, Benellis DON'T need $1000.00 worth of work to be ANYTHING compatable. The gun I used to win the English open for 3 years is a bone STOCK M1 w/ a 24" barrel. The Shotgun I won SMM3G twice with, was a BONE STOCK M1 w/ a 21" barrel. The VERY few modifications I have done to it now are more to show off sponsor's work than to make it race ready. Where does this Idea come from?? Kurt "Mr. Weakhand" Miller Kurts right, mine only needed $475.00 worth of fixin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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