Trajectory and velocity questions

[urnsrus]

Indiana now allows rifle calibers of the following for use with deer:

357 Magnum

38-40 Win

41 Mag

41 Special

44 Mag

44 Special

44-40 Win

45 Colt

454 Casull

475 Linebaugh

480 Ruger

50 Action Express

500 S&W

Any advise as to which is best for knock down, accuracy and distance? Most normal shots would be within 250 yards at most.

[bigbrowndog]

In a rifle I would go with 454 casull, 475 Linebaugh, 500SW, although 250 is stretching the capabilities of either of the choices. It has been done with a handgun, but rifle choices in either of the calibers will be few.

Trapr

[boz1911]

I know somebody makes a lever action in 454, a personal favorite. The 500 would be my second choice. T/C probably offer these in their barrel selection. 250 yards would be stretching these because of the velocity drop off due to the large frontal area. A 26 inch barrel and some experimentation with different loads might yeild some positive results.

[ebg3]

Compare the 475 Linebaugh and the 500 S&W. Hornady makes a soft tipped spire point bullet for use in tubular magazines, these will have a flatter trajectory than traditional pistol bullets. The 460 S&W would really be the best choice of pistol rounds in a rifle platform. I didn't see it on the list though. We used to shoot bowling pins at 200 yards with our 44 mags/ no scopes, using cast bullets from wheel weights. I've seen my dad run 6 for 6 with his 4" model 29! In a rifle, I have no doubt that a few of the rounds you listed could be used to take deer at 250 yards readily.

[eightshot627]

Sounds like a good excuse for a .458 SOCOM. Case length 1.575

“Rifles with pistol cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms season. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the 357 Magnum, 38-40 Winchester, 41 Magnum, 41 Special, 44 Magnum, 44 Special, 44-40 Winchester, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 480 Ruger, 50 Action Express, and 500 S&W.”

http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/WSSM%20page.htm has a .358WSSM that he says equals or beats .385Win. Indian legal.

I want a 458 SOCOM but don’t have a good excuse for one.

Walt

[kurtm]

I think I would go .44 mag. Rifles are easy to find ( mostly lever guns and if you can find one the Browning remake of the model 92 winchester is just outstanding ) ammo is easy to find, they are relativly inexpensive, and a 240 at 1800 fps. is good out to 200, My browning will shoot 5" groups at that range all day long and that is certainly Minute of Deer! KurtM

[Modoc]

Have to second Kurt's coment on the 44 Mag. In fact, it is my big bore cartridge for Cowboy action with the B92 as a rifle. Believe it or not, loaded with a 250 gr. hard cast, it will take the Rams down at 200 M on the Silhouette Range. Of cource you could go for a TC Encore (single shot) you could have any of the cartridges listed.

[urnsrus]

Everyone has been a great help! Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. I had gone to the NRA show in Louisville last weekend and snooped around. Had thought about narrowing down to the .44 mag and a Marlin lever action. Partly because of availability of ammo and also the rifle, however the rifle is very limited availability currently because of the new Indiana revision in rules for deer. This was verified by the Marlin people at the show.

Now, however, I am a Browning lover and did NOT know about the B92, so I may have to investigate that. All other thoughts are welcome, so keep them coming.

It would be interesting to have one on an AR platform though!

[mwx40x40]

Have to second Kurt's coment on the 44 Mag. In fact, it is my big bore cartridge for Cowboy action with the B92 as a rifle. Believe it or not, loaded with a 250 gr. hard cast, it will take the Rams down at 200 M on the Silhouette Range. Of cource you could go for a TC Encore (single shot) you could have any of the cartridges listed.

Thirds on 44 mag. I would use the new Hornady bullets w/the red pointy tips. They should extend the 44's range a little.

[EricW]

I've seriously considered a pistol-caliber rifle and I can't imagine doing something besides a 357 or a 44 mag. The 44 is really economical to shoot compared to the super-mags. That's a rifle to take mom and kids to the range with and shoot a couple hundred rounds with. Not going to do that with a 454 or a 50.

[Joe4d]

A 454 will also chamber 45 colt including mousefart cowboy ammo and would be a better choice and available in model 92 clones. It is a better choice unless you dont reload. If I was running factory ammo I'd go 44 mag. Ruger made and still makes some great autoloaders in 44 magnum.

44 mag 240gr zeroed 2.68" high at 100 will never be higher or lower than 3 " from point of aim out to 160 yards. at 200 you are 10 inches low so range estimation is critical at anything over 150.

a 454 firing 260 gr bullets zeroed the same way would only be 4 inches low at 200 yards and it may be better but I only have 9" barrel data.

[Joe4d]

oops

Edited May 25, 2008 by Joe4d

[J-Ho]

I'm a little ignorant here. Does Indiana disallow 'real' rifle calibers for deer hunting? If so, what did you use before these calibers were allowed?

I really like 41 mag in a pistol. I've seen a couple of lever guns in 41 mag. I've been looking at a pistol caliber rifle for deer down here. I think I'm going to go with 357. We just have these wee little whitetail.

[urnsrus]

Up until this year, Indiana only allowed shotgun slugs, black powder, or pistol. The nice thing too, is there will be no maximum round count.

Yesterday, I tried finding a Browning B-92 and darn, those things are scarce. Any ideas on the best place to look? I got on Browning's web site and they do not list it. It appears to have been a model they once made, however, now do not make any more.

[Joe4d]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=100865336

This is a 92 clone in 454, several on Gun broker. The Puma's are very well liked in Cowboy action shooting games.

If it has to say "Browning"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=100850212

[kgunz11]

A .454 Casull out of a carbine length lever action rifle can safely reach velocities in the 2300 fps range with factory loaded 260gr Winchester Partition Gold. With a 100 yard zero it drops 9.6" @ 200 yards and 38.2" @ 300 yards. It's delivering 623.9 ft lbs of energy at 300 yards. Not that I'd ever try and shoot anything smaller than a deer at 300 yards with irons.

The 300gr Hornady leaves a 20" bbl at 2000 fps with an 11.6" drop @ 200 and 42.9" @ 300 with 824.7 ft lbs of energy @ 300 yards.

For a 30-100 yard brush gun it would be one nasty killer. At 50 yards it delivers more than 2200 ft lbs of energy. That's almost equal to a .308 shooting M118LR at 2600fps!

[J-Ho]

Up until this year, Indiana only allowed shotgun slugs, black powder, or pistol. The nice thing too, is there will be no maximum round count.

What is/was the reasoning behind that? I think our only restriction on ammo is not to use rimfire.

[kgunz11]

Up until this year, Indiana only allowed shotgun slugs, black powder, or pistol. The nice thing too, is there will be no maximum round count.

What is/was the reasoning behind that? I think our only restriction on ammo is not to use rimfire.

I think you call it "Democrats".

[Joe4d]

Indianna is flat and crowded, many flat and crowded areas have no rifle shotgun only rules left over from an era when shotgun slugs were only good to a hundred yards max and pretty much nose dived after that. With the shotgun only rules the market demanded better slug balistics nowadays with rifled shotgun barrels shooting sabot ammunition the difference in trajectory between it and alot of traditional deer rifles is pretty slim. Evidently someone noticed this and successfully got the law changed to allow rifle rounds with similar balistics.

[ninefan]

Indianna is flat and crowded, many flat and crowded areas have no rifle shotgun only rules left over from an era when shotgun slugs were only good to a hundred yards max and pretty much nose dived after that. With the shotgun only rules the market demanded better slug balistics nowadays with rifled shotgun barrels shooting sabot ammunition the difference in trajectory between it and alot of traditional deer rifles is pretty slim. Evidently someone noticed this and successfully got the law changed to allow rifle rounds with similar balistics.

That's pretty ridiculous. It seems like the ridiculous firearms law disease is spreading though, so who knows where everything will end up.

It's interesting in this case that they actually opened things up a bit. Logic and firearms laws? Whaaat?

[J-Ho]

Up until this year, Indiana only allowed shotgun slugs, black powder, or pistol. The nice thing too, is there will be no maximum round count.

What is/was the reasoning behind that? I think our only restriction on ammo is not to use rimfire.

I think you call it "Democrats".

Careful, talk like that will get this thread closed.

Besides I used the word reasoning.....

[kgunz11]

My response was meant as a joke, I guess I should have added that disclaimer.

[Joe4d]

Well model 92's arnt known for their long range acuracy, If I remember correctly Ruger makes a M77 bolt action 44 magnum. The all weather 77/44

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=100821758

Now that would be perfect.

This one is in Indiana so no mail order transfer issues.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=100821758

Edited May 28, 2008 by Joe4d

[urnsrus]

You guys are all funny....seems these days that the term Democrat= a lot of different answers. It appears that the auction closed on the Ruger bolt action. I will continue to check/search and again, thank you all for your continued support and answers. Keep them coming!

David

[Charles Bond]

You have plenty of time between now and deer season to get what you want. Job one for you might be to choose a caliber since the responses to date have done a good job of outlining the choices. You can go 44 mag and have plently of choices in firearm or you can go TC and pick any caliber you desire. I own some Brownings and they are fine weapons but I will have to say, if I were 16 again and just starting out, I would buy a couple of TC receivers and a box full of barrels in different calibers.

My caliber vote is 454 Casull. I can also tell you if you are looking for a rifle in it one call to the helpful folks at Freedom Arms will likely hook you up. Every time I have ever called they have kept be quite engaged on the telephone.