BDH Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I own two scales.... a PACT DPPS, and a Redding #2 Master. It is very rare that I pull out the Redding, because the PACT is so much faster. However, my PACT gave me an Err2 message the other day, and it seems that the weights are flipping around a little bit (in other words, instead of flipping between 5.9 and 6.0, it occassionally is flipping between 3.9 and 6.5 or something equally ridiculous). Anyway, I reset it, I recalibrated it, but have been keeping an eye on it. I decided just to be safe, that I should double check my charge weight against the Redding, only to be surprised that the there was a difference of .4 gr between the two scales (with the PACT reading high). I pulled out my RCBS Deluxe Scale Check Weights, only to find that the PACT was dead on, and the Redding was weighing light. Is it possible that digital scale is more accurate than a balance beam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Are you sure that you have the Redding levelled properly? It doesn't take much of a surface level variation to throw off a balance beam scale. Also, make sure you are at eye-level with the indicator when you level the scale. Parallax errors can be fairly substantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 EW, yep the Redding was leveled, and I was looking straight at it. In addition, there are no vents or anything like that blowing on my bench. Really weird, and the last thing I want is to doubt BOTH my scales..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Be certain the knife edges are sharp and clean - also the V's they rest in. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronson7 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Here's a little something I came up with to keep my scale level. Some will say it's over-kill but I'm anal about accuracy. http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=...threadid=140517 Bronson7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Beam scales are the devil's playthings. I got my BS in Chemistry back when we still knew how to use slide rules. (Yes, I'm nearly as old as dirt. Want to place money on the next plate rack run?) The scales we used were top-grade scientific instruments, in a temperature and humidity controlled room. Each scale sat on its own concrete pier sunk below the floor and insulated from the floor. They were regularly checked for accuracy and maintained according to the manufacturers schedule. Every scale weighed different. Each operator had idiosyncracies that made for differing recorded weights. You could not get the same recorded weight for a sample if you used a different scale or had someone else weigh it. Of course, I'm talking third and fourth decimal place deviations, but come on! So, your consumer grade scales do not agree with each other? Welcome to the club. What matters is, are they consistent? Does your scale always record your check weight within .1 grain? Great. If not, then you have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I've gotta agree with Patrick on this one.....By far, the most important attribute of any type of scale is repeatability. Find a good repeatable scale and stick with it for all of your reloading measurements. When trying a new load always start from the minimum charge weight and work your way up and that way you will never go wrong. I am still using the RCBS beam scale that came with my rockchucker kit 10 years ago. I haven't touched the rockchucker since I got my dillon 550 but that scale is a constant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 So, your consumer grade scales do not agree with each other? Welcome to the club. What matters is, are they consistent? Does your scale always record your check weight within .1 grain? Great. If not, then you have a problem. Good points, and yes, I believe the PACT has been consistent. Remember though, the whole reason I even compared the two was the PACT gave me an error message, and after I reset it and recalibrated it, it now seems to jump through wide swings before stabilizing on a weight. It always comes back to the weight my Dillon powder measure should be throwing, but it is definately working differently than it had. My concern was not that I had the exact weight..... it was that maybe it was showing what I thought was the correct weight, but not reading correctly (in other words, what I was concerned about was had it somehow been damaged, and now was not as consistent as it had been). That's why I pulled out Redding just to double check it, and then was surprised by those results as I thought balance beams were generally more accurate. I think I will just keep an eye on it, and if the Err2 message pops up again, ship it back to PACT and have them take a look..... Guy, thanks for the tip on checking the balance points. I will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Remember though, the whole reason I even compared the two was the PACT gave me an error message, and after I reset it and recalibrated it, it now seems to jump through wide swings before stabilizing on a weight. You might try replacing the battery. In my experience the electronic scales need a pretty fresh power cell or they'll starting that whole "flipping between numbers" thing. A new battery cures the problem, I've always found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 If doubtful about your DPP's accuracy, especially after calibrating it, call PACT @ 800 PACT INC and you'll probably get Pat, who'll walk you through the "factory calibration" technique. Then, he probably tell you that you must recalibrate the scale using the manual's technique; now you should back in business - worry free. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 Duane, it's running on AC. BE, ah ha...... the 'secret factory calibration technique'. As always, thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 My digital runs on AC, and stays on a particular location on the bench, so leveling and power fluctuation problems, aren't. Also, I note the position of the powder adjustment nut (I marked mine) for each load. That way, I have a cross-check. If the 12 o'clock position (for example) of my powder drop knob is supposed to deliver 4.2 gr of Bullseye, and it doesn't, then I can check to find out where the problem lies. Usually it is because I'm a full turn off the proper setting. But if I'm not, and the scale gives a different reading, I know to check before I get to the range with a five gallon bucket of mis-loaded ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Hehe, nice combination of ancient and modern technologies: Bullseye on a digital scale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I had some variability problems with my Dillon digital on AC when I first got it, but wrapping a ferrite bead around the power cable fixed all that. Ferrites are those browinsh-black lumps on the ends of some computer & TV cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THS Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I wrote a long dissertation about scales a while ago. I don't remember the thread, though. I have a lot of experience with them, in a reloading capacity. Like the previous advice, what matters if if your scale repeats. EVERY time. I had a PACT, and a few others and did a small scale test. I took the exact same 210 grain Berger VLD bullet and weighed it 100 times. Yes, I allowed for warm up time, and calibrated each scale per the factory recommendations. What I saw was every scale I tried, 5 of them, except the Denver Instruments, showed a variance in recorded mass. Some went from 205.X to 212.8 grains, others showed much more variance, but even that is statistically small. The DI on the other hand, showed 209.9 grains, EVERY TIME. Yes, every time for 100 cycles! It aint cheap, but I was weighing every case, primer, bullet, and powder charge for 1000 yard shooting. It had a lot to do with the strain gage versus piezo crystal technology, I think, but the bottom line was you get what you pay for. I sold that scale recently, and before I boxed it I weighed that same Berger bullet, and 7 years later, it came in at 209.9 grains. Cool gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I had some variability problems with my Dillon digital on AC when I first got it, but wrapping a ferrite bead around the power cable fixed all that. Ferrites are those browinsh-black lumps on the ends of some computer & TV cables. Any particular spot on the power cable - closer or further away from teh scale?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 THS, That's some crazy stuff! You wouldn't happen to have the data for the "other" scales, would you? be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I stuck mine up by the scale since I figured that there it would block both noise in the power line and any induced noise in the adapter cable. Plus it was easier to attach it to that end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 You had a scale that reliable and consistent, and you sold it? In god's name, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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