Half-day squadding schedule…

[L9X25]

We have been hosting and attending matches for years where the squadding schedule was simple … all day, both days, and everyone was generally happy. Then some bright person thought up the idea of the half-day schedule, where you could shoot the same match in half of the time. You would shoot Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon or Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. The idea was great and, in my opinion, it has worked like a charm. You can shoot the match in the morning, or afternoon, and have the remainder of the day to watch, relax, shop the vendor tents, sleep in, or whatever. You have far less waiting to shoot and it is much easier to maintain a rhythm from stage to stage. A MUCH better solution than spending the entire day standing around to shoot the same number of stages that you now shoot in a half day.

Here comes the problem … while nobody really complained about being at the range all day, both days, there is now a definite preference for the Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning schedule. Far fewer people want the Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon schedule. The problem is that, once the Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning schedule fills up, there are lots of complaints from the folks that have to shoot the less desirable schedule. Even the less desirable schedule is FAR BETTER than the old all day both day schedule but people still complain. The complaints have escalated to the point where some people refuse to shoot the match unless they are given the preferred schedule. Everyone cannot have the same schedule, or we are back to old all day, both day, schedule.

We have maintained the first come, first served, method of distributing the squadding requests and it benefits those that register early, as it should, but the complaints and refusals to accept the less desirable schedule are about to cause us to revert to the dreaded all day, both day, schedule.

How are other match organizers dealing with this problem?

[XRe]

How are other match organizers dealing with this problem?

For starters, they treat everyone as adults. You get in line for the schedule you want, and if you miss out cause you didn't get in line soon enough, that's your problem. Those that throw temper tantrums are told to take a hike. What happens in the case of the FL Open is that everyone wants to shoot on Friday, then - and a lot of folks don't come if they can't shoot on Friday (because, frankly, nothing is more boring than the all-day, both-day, alternating squads schedule, and there's a large advantage in shooting it all in one day from a performance perspective).

I'm getting ready to send in my app for A1, and it looks like both of my preferred schedules are possibly booked up, requiring me to effectively incur at least one extra night of hotel. My bad, didn't realize it'd fill that quickly (hell, the match is in June...). That's what I get for not getting my app in right away...

The end result is - no squadding schedule is perfect, and everyone one of them will have people bitching somehow or another. You're just hearing different whines than you're used to, and in some respects people had stopped whining to you about the old squad schedules, and just weren't showing up. It doesn't matter what schedule you set up, someone will always miss out on the one they want, and they'll always bitch about it.... Deal with them as adults, and they'll grow up and deal with it, or they'll just go away...

BTW, Wadette doesn't seem to have any problems with "tough love" She should give all of y'all lessons on it!

Dave

[wgnoyes]

After 4 years of Area 6, honestly, the standard and default answer is "you snooze, you lose". Life is filled with deadlines, and events have capacity limits. How well would it play with the box office for a bunch of people to show up the night of some group's concert saying, well we want front row center, if we can't have that, we won't go at all! Response (paraphrased from "Tombstone"): Well.... bye!

Don't give in to this; let them whine. All they're doing is just identifying themselves as the type that you probably don't want there anyway.

[AikiDale]

I like the half day format and don't really care which half. However, if I had my druthers I would like to see a choice of either morinings both days or afternoon both days rather than one of each.

[LChico]

The only match I've worked using that format was Targeting Education's World Shoot Qualifier match last year in Michigan. I told the match director that the "PM then AM" rotation was going to fill completely & have a waiting list before I put 10 people into the "AM then PM" time slot. I think I missed that prediction by about 4. . .There were only 14 in the 'less desirable' shooting schedule when the other one was full.

In the north Atlantic states, a half day schedule means you shoot the entire match in a half day. For instance, Summer Blast shooters will shoot all 10 stages plus chrono in about 4.5 hours. The squad sizes are kept small & time periods average 60 shooters. When the 60 slots are gone, they have 3 choices (I have copied my form letter below. . .quite a few forum members will recognize it! )

All Saturday (AM & PM) Slots at Summer Blast are full. All Sunday AM slots are full. Your application & check were sent too late to be included as a weekend shooter. I am unable to confirm your registration for the match. I have started a waiting list for all full weekend time slots. I can offer you the following options:

1. I can put you into a Friday AM or PM Slot right away. Now that the weekend is full, these are filling fast. Please get back to me soon.

2. I can put you on a waiting list for a weekend slot (you will need to specify the day & time), hoping that enough registered competitors will drop out of the match during the 5 months before the match, and you will be able to shoot it. I will hold your check (it will not be deposited unless I can confirm you into the match). Current waiting list numbers: Saturday AM - 5, Saturday PM - 13, Sunday AM - 9.

3. I can return your check, thank-you for your interest in the match, and hope you can join us next year.

Please let me know which option you prefer

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Summer Blast Statistician

A modified version of this message may work for you.

Edited March 4, 2008 by LChico

[XD Niner]

I too much prefer the half day format. Leo, I suspect part of the reason for the response you see in Frostproof is that there is not a whole lot else to do in the area unless you like watching the oranges ripen. If I shoot the Saturday PM/Sunday AM format, I can drive down from Gainesville (3 hours) on Saturday morning so that I arrive with a couple of hours to check out the stages, have lunch and hit the vendors. I then have only one night in the hotel before an early start on Sunday morning. I'm done by noon and can be back home by 3:00 if I don't hang around for the awards ceremony. I know I miss the cutural wonders of Frostproof and Sebring but it is a painful sacrifice that I choose to make.

If too many people prefer this schedule, you might want to try the AM or PM approach that AikiDale suggests. Personally, I'd shoot the PM schedule so that I could still drive down in the morning but others might prefer the dual AM schedule. Of course, there is always the full day Friday schedule for those who prefer a one day match.

No matter what you do, some will like it and others won't. Keep up the good work. You guys sure put on some terrific matches with some very well designed stages.

Edited March 4, 2008 by XD Niner

[scirocco38s]

We have been hosting and attending matches for years where the squadding schedule was simple … all day, both days, and everyone was generally happy. Then some bright person thought up the idea of the half-day schedule, where you could shoot the same match in half of the time. You would shoot Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon or Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. The idea was great and, in my opinion, it has worked like a charm. You can shoot the match in the morning, or afternoon, and have the remainder of the day to watch, relax, shop the vendor tents, sleep in, or whatever. You have far less waiting to shoot and it is much easier to maintain a rhythm from stage to stage. A MUCH better solution than spending the entire day standing around to shoot the same number of stages that you now shoot in a half day.

Here comes the problem … while nobody really complained about being at the range all day, both days, there is now a definite preference for the Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning schedule. Far fewer people want the Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon schedule. The problem is that, once the Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning schedule fills up, there are lots of complaints from the folks that have to shoot the less desirable schedule. Even the less desirable schedule is FAR BETTER than the old all day both day schedule but people still complain. The complaints have escalated to the point where some people refuse to shoot the match unless they are given the preferred schedule. Everyone cannot have the same schedule, or we are back to old all day, both day, schedule.

We have maintained the first come, first served, method of distributing the squadding requests and it benefits those that register early, as it should, but the complaints and refusals to accept the less desirable schedule are about to cause us to revert to the dreaded all day, both day, schedule.

How are other match organizers dealing with this problem?

It doesnt matter what you do, you are always going to have those who say if I cant have my way then I wont play. I say as some others have you waited to long so you go to the back of the line and take leftovers. That is the polited reponse. The more accurate one is piss off. These are the same folks that complained about all day schedule. I realize that Frank is try to answer some questions involving attendance this year verses previous years but I dont think it is any 1 factor that makes the attendance go down. It could be the proximity to the shot show dates. The cost of travel and lodging is becoming a factor also. If you drive, gas is becoming a huge factor and some folks dont have the disposable income that they did 2or 3 years ago. The format of the match this year was excellent. If you shot sat after/sun morn you could possibly get a jump on your trip home, but if you shot sat morn/sun after you finished at the same time as the previous years, so that complaint is invalid. I say stand your ground and keep the schedule as is and let the people come and shoot the match that shoot it every year, year in and out. Let the whinners stay home and make all the noise they want, because if you had accomadated them then they would find something else to bitch about.

[ChuckS]

Area 2 has been running that schedule for at least since 2002. I don't recall anyone not wanting to go because of that schedule

[GAPEACH]

Generally speaking the Area 6 has a squad schedule for everyone. Friday is strictly a 'shoot it all in one day' schedule. Saturday has 6 squads that shoot it all in one day, six squads that shoot it Sat Morn/Sun Morn and 6 squads that shoot it Sat Aft/Sun Morn. It has worked very well for me except for those few people that don't get their entries in soon enough and then I accomodate them if I can as people drop out of the match. I have used the USPSA online squadding system each year and it helps to let people see where the match is filling. It also keeps us out of the last minute squadding of the whole match and it has a facility for mass emailing the shooters.

Cindy

[BigDave]

The Indiana section has famously run 1/2 day formats for the entire (read: all stages shot in 1/2 day) match for the past several years. Last year had 194 competitors and 9 stages. You might ask Dave Ball what he thinks of the format.

[Jim Norman]

Let's see.

We have the following squadding schedules described:

1/2 Day, shoot the whole match in one day, morning or afternoon. small squads, fast paced

1/2 Day, two days, you ge AM/PM or PM/AM larger squads, slower pace, need an overnight.

All Day, two days, Way larger squads, way slower pace and you are on the range ALL DAY

All Day. two days, smaller squads, still a slow pace, you shoot every other time slot.

All Day. large squads, shoot the whole match in one day.No time to visit the vendors, Not good for sponsors.

Did I miss any???

I like the Summer Blast, Shoot 1/2 Day, hang out or not and scoot.

I also like a whole day IF there is enough to keep me busy All day. I'll even go for a two day all day IF there is enough to make it work. One needs to be very mindful of the time it takes to clear shooters through and also the boredom factor which no matter how exciting can stripa match of its appeal. The worst thing is to have squads cathing up and standing around waiting. This happens especially when there are unblanced squads because an MD didn't want to break up a group. You just can't mix squads of 7 and 12 people in a match!

Nationals is a different story, but still the same, In order to be "fair" to all, everyone is made to be at the range each day, you may luck out and get dry mornings one day and dry afternoons the next where the opposite group got rained on both times, but that can't be helped. You at least have an equal oppurtunity to get good or crappy weather and lighting. If a match like that were to allow one day shooting and small squads, one day may have optimum conditions and the rest could be way sub-par. that would not be good.

Typically our larger matches are a shoot all day in one day match. THi sis due mainly to the number of workers we have and the size of the range.

Jim

[LChico]

Let's see.

We have the following squadding schedules described:

1/2 Day, shoot the whole match in one day, morning or afternoon. small squads, fast paced

1/2 Day, two days, you ge AM/PM or PM/AM larger squads, slower pace, need an overnight.

All Day, two days, Way larger squads, way slower pace and you are on the range ALL DAY

All Day. two days, smaller squads, still a slow pace, you shoot every other time slot.

All Day. large squads, shoot the whole match in one day.No time to visit the vendors, Not good for sponsors.

Did I miss any???

Hi Jim,

You missed at least 2 formats:

All Day (6.5 hours) for 2 days plus 1/2 Day on the third day. Every shooter has to be there all 3 days, but only 3 hours of shooting on the last day. Used by the Area 2 match. Certainly hasn't hurt their attendence.

All day shooting in one day, moderate sized squads (10 or 11 each) with stage rotation every 45 minutes. Four 45 minute breaks in the day (one is lunch) and the other 3 allow time to visit the vendors, shoot side matches or just talk to shooting buddies. There are always at least 2 & sometimes 3 stages before a 45 minute break. This is a blend of the Summer Blast 1/2 day format & the 'all day in one day' formats. We have been using this one successfully in South Carolina for years.

Personally, I love the choices offered by the Area 6 match, (see GAPEACH's post) because it offers the greatest variety of options to the shooters. Like any other match in the country, is you want a specific time format or a specific squad, Register Early.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 SC State Match Statistician

[L9X25]

Thanks folks, I appreciate the feedback.

I think that every match, regardless of how many different options are available, will have options that are favored more than the others and fill up first. Once that happens the remainder of the folks will complain because the missed out on the best available option. It all comes down to REGISTER EARLY and you are almost assured of getting exactly what you want. Wait until late in the process and you will have to accept what is available, if anything is available.

Leo

Edited March 6, 2008 by L9X25