chp5 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 chp5, outdoors, I said outdoors.Indoors is a whole other ball of wax. My bad. Completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 As for the Air Force, they do as they are told. Do not use their actions as indications of what you should do. If the proper sub-committee told them "guns are icky, you have to use rubber bullets" they'd get busy asking for quotes for rubber bullets. Heck, the services didn't even regularly use hearing protection until recently. WOW, you must be OLD if 'recently' is over 20 years. I've been in the AF for 19 1/2 years, and hearing protection has always been mandatory on the firing range and on the flight line. The AF also started it's conversion to non-toxic frangible ammo 8 years ago, and has been mandatory for CONUS ranges years before considered fashionable. There have been just too many CATM instructors with lead levels in the 50+ range. Most LE and military are OK at their normal qual and proficiency firing, but it's the instructors that take the huge hit. IMO, different ammo to qual vs. shooting the ammo you carry is not the optimal training scenario, but then again, it lessens OSHA and EPA issues a lot and is still a fair facsimile. Not everything the AF does is entirely without merit. We very seldom were provided hearing protection when I was in the Marine Corp 1965-1972. I recall sometimes we would use fired 45 brass for earplugs when on the range with our 106mm Recoiless Rifles. 45 ACP ear plugs probably added to our lead exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmccrock Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I never heard the saline nasal spray thing before. I definitely would blow my nose in addition to washing hands, face, etc., after shooting. I used to shoot at an indoor range and there would be lots of dust kicked up. Even with shooting lead indoors and reloading, my lead levels were single digit. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I brought my lead levels down by not going to the indoor range anymore.(Worked there as instructor) I know about the hat in the dishwasher thing and if it was not for my wife going armed I would have used her dishwasher to clean my caps. As it stands now I wash them by hand. I have only during major competitions shot anything but lead. With the price of bullets I would probably continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooddog Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 All very good information. I dropped my level from 30 to 12 and am about to get another test. Its something we all need to keep in mind and just be careful and aware. Its also something the "Anti gunners" will be using against us so the more we know the better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 For the last month, I have had low level reoccuring headaches. I went in to the dr and had them do every test I could think of, to include arguing for two hours to get a lead level test. I had a test about Jul 06 and it came back 11ug/dl. The most recent test came back 21 ug/dl. Looks like I'll be following a lot of advise from this thread. Get tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhglyn Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 After seeing this thread I decided to get myself checked. Blood lead level came back at 7 and my doctor said there was nothing to worry about. I am very careful to wash my hands etc. after reloading or after a practice or match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UW Mitch Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 In December I was measured at 19ug/dl - nurse practitioner on campus is a clear antigunner - said quit my job at the range (that I only work 2 shifts a month) and stop shooting altogether. Sigh...so I'm doing Enymatics Heavy Metal Cleanse supplimented with a fiber suppliment and multivitamins. I'll be done with a 30 day cycle in 6 days and will get re-tested. Also threw out my old tumbling media and am more careful about wiping down after the range and stripping in my doorway, bagging the clothes I wore to the range. I'll post my results when I get 'em. ~Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Just got my latest test back - 8! That is normal. Keep off the indoor ranges that is my advice to anyone that had a lead problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooddog Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 I got my latest results back...got my level down to 6! The combination of everything mentioned above will,keep it where it belongs. For all of us, its really a matter of education and keeping up with our hygiene in all the aspects of our sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp78 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) I was in the doc office last week asked for a test as an aside. A quick stop by a local LabCorp office and 1 week later I had a result of 13. Doc told me normal levels were 0 - 19. I shoot purchased lead and moly bullets about twice a week, outdoors, and have been reloading for almost a year & half picking, sorting, and cleaning my own brass. As a new reloader my brass-fever led to some admittedly bad habits like "pick-brass, then eat" at matches. I expect my lead level will come down as a result of eliminating some of those lax behaviours discussed in this thread & others. Edited March 26, 2008 by bp78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Slap me silly and call me Sally, I never heard of hat-holders. The very fact that you think your name is "Sally" would seem to indicate that your lead levels have reached a critically dangerous point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UW Mitch Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Well sh!t, I just went to get my levels checked yesterday and got a call that the results were back - up another point from 19ug/dl in end of Nov to 20 now, even though I've been really careful with my shooting hygene and went on a 1 month "heavy metal cleanse" from Enymatic. This sucks... ~Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Well sh!t, I just went to get my levels checked yesterday and got a call that the results were back - up another point from 19ug/dl in end of Nov to 20 now, even though I've been really careful with my shooting hygene and went on a 1 month "heavy metal cleanse" from Enymatic. This sucks...~Mitch That says to me that's it's the air in the range you work at. It might need a complete scrub and very new filters. MHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Aaaggh. Doctor just called me this am. Level is 20ug/dl up from 11/ug/dl three years ago. I'm bummed, but not surprised. In the last 3 years, I've been shooting a LOT in an indoor range. Despite it boasting state-of-the-art filtration, I have some serious doubts. Also been reloading, picking up range brass, etc, etc, and while being conscious of hygiene not fanatical about it. Looks like I'll need to be. Any value to those D-lead wipe things? Is there a cheaper alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 (edited) I am becoming more and more convinced the major cause of our elevated lead levels is the indoor shooting. I still think sticking your finger in your mouth immediately after picking up brass or reloading is probably not good either (duh ), but is there anyone out there that can say they have elevated lead (14lg/dl or higher) levels and has never shot at an indoor range? I went from 11 to 21 in one year, and the only thing that really changed was shooting a lot at an old indoor range during the winter. Edited to add: I could see shooting indoors not raising the level very much if done in moderation, but lets face it, we typically don't shoot in moderation. Edited March 28, 2008 by SA Friday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Wow this thread is freaking me out!!!! I never shoot indoors but I'm really concerned about my reloading area. I wash my hands after I reload and or handle tumbled brass but I'm wondering about the air quality in my room. I wonder if there is a way to check the air quality and if an air filtering machine would help? Any ideas anyone?????? I have two young boys and need to be proactive about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooting for M Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Here's what I know. I am a firearms instructor and am on the range 3-6 days a week. My lead levels are OK, a little high, because I'm stupid and smoke. We shoot at an outdoor range so it's not so bad. I'm sure most members here know that most of the lead that you ingest is from the primers, not the actual bullets, esp. if you are using JHP ammo. I just had my first child a few months ago, and them being more susceptible, I asked his doctor about it. The doctor of course didn't know anything, but he did a ton of research for me, he was curious too. His suggestions were this: -Take a shower as soon as you get home, boots off before going inside, clothes too if possible. -He also suggested changing at work so I don't get lead in my car, not a problem, my son will never ride in my POS. -Wash work/range clothes separately, for added insurance we wash another load of our clothes before the baby's. -don't smoke, eat, and drink without washing your hands and face (esp. around nose and mouth) well -Blow your nose often, leads will build up in your nostrils from breathing, something a lot of people don't think about -wear a hat, good idea for more than just lead exposure i.e. ricochets, brass etc A couple of my things are to make sure you do these things after reloading and cleaning your gun too, I'm lucky enough to have a separate workshop for my reloading room. Also remember to wash your face and hands after picking up brass; this is probably where you get your most exposure to lead dust except for an indoor range. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Here's what I know. I am a firearms instructor and am on the range 3-6 days a week. My lead levels are OK, a little high, because I'm stupid and smoke. We shoot at an outdoor range so it's not so bad. I'm sure most members here know that most of the lead that you ingest is from the primers, not the actual bullets, esp. if you are using JHP ammo. I just had my first child a few months ago, and them being more susceptible, I asked his doctor about it. The doctor of course didn't know anything, but he did a ton of research for me, he was curious too. His suggestions were this: -Take a shower as soon as you get home, boots off before going inside, clothes too if possible. -He also suggested changing at work so I don't get lead in my car, not a problem, my son will never ride in my POS. -Wash work/range clothes separately, for added insurance we wash another load of our clothes before the baby's. -don't smoke, eat, and drink without washing your hands and face (esp. around nose and mouth) well -Blow your nose often, leads will build up in your nostrils from breathing, something a lot of people don't think about -wear a hat, good idea for more than just lead exposure i.e. ricochets, brass etc A couple of my things are to make sure you do these things after reloading and cleaning your gun too, I'm lucky enough to have a separate workshop for my reloading room. Also remember to wash your face and hands after picking up brass; this is probably where you get your most exposure to lead dust except for an indoor range. Jason Why are JHP worse. I would think FMJ with the exposed bottom would be way worse?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 My blood test just came back at 29, I shoot atleast 1x a week indoors with usually 5+ other shooters and going down range after each shooter to tape targets, and while the ventilation system seemed good, we were following the smoke down range and kick up alot of dust that was on the floor. Also my hygeine regard changing after shooting or taking a shower was pretty Lax. I found lead on my reloading bench from the spent primers and also on my tumbler. So, I am going to reload will wearing gloves, try to get more ventilation in there. I will no longer shoot indoor and I take a shower and change my clothes as soon as I get back from the range. Hopefully this will help bring my levels down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighVelocity Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 It's funny, reading the second article, of the 18 symptoms I had 2. Fatigue. This can become profound and incapacitating. 3. Irritability and aggressiveness. 5. Insomnia. (Which greatly complicates the fatigue.) 7. Headaches. 11. Digestive difficulties and abdominal pains. 13. Joint pains, particularly in the joints of the long bones, like the wrists. Last year, I tested 23. Last week, I tested 27. I shoot a lot of indoor matches but that's going to stop right now. I've decided to cut it back from 4 to 2 a month and see what happens. I am seriously showing #3 from the list above. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooting for M Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 [ Why are JHP worse. I would think FMJ with the exposed bottom would be way worse?? I meant it to mean that JHPs or complete jackets are better. Sorry for the confusion. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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