HR Henney Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 To the group, I am new to reloading and am in the process of working up my IPSC load - 45ACP topped with Montana Gold 200gr JFP using TiteGroup. When reloading once fired brass, I have no problems with the press. However, when using new Winchester brass, the cases stick to the powder funnel. The funnel requires cleaning every 7 to 10 rounds. I have tried decreasing the the bell, deburring inside and out, lubing the cases with no noted improvement. Contacted Dillion via e-mail and received the following response - it has been known to happen and they suggested cleaning the funnel every 25 rounds. I'd love to get to 25 before I have this problem. More importantly, I in my estimation I shouldn't have to do this anywhere near this frequently. One additional clue - the Starline website FAQs notes this problem with the Dillon powder funnel and their brass in 45 and 40 S&W. What have I missed? Your experience and advise is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Herb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Og Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 HR Henney I had the same problems with my 650's when I started loading on them 10yrs ago and just marked it up to the nature of the beast. Usually virgin brass needs to be fired and reloaded about three times before it will smoothly flow thru the dillon depending on the temper and thickness of that particular peice of brass. All I did was tough it out and do what it takes to get these cases loaded and fired and mark it up to experience. Just because this machine has this quirk it is still a fantastic loader and sometimes you have to make allowances for it's nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Are you getting brass shaving all around the plate? Are you sure it's the powder station. Have you isolated the "sticking" to that station only? I had a problem with new 10mm brass (starline) in my 550. The brass would stick to the inside of the crimping station and cause a progressively louder and louder WHACK when I raised the handle. This didn't happen with used brass...... My solutuion was to tumble new brass, it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR Henney Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 TDean, I have isolated the problem to the funnel. There are no shavings at this or any of the other stations. There is brass collecting at the bottom neck of the funnel that is causing the sticking problem. As per Dillon's recommendation, I clean it off with steel wool or ammonia. I'll tumble a few cases and give it a try. Og, This isn't the experience I hoped for! Despite this problem, I love the simplicity of the 550. I wanted to load new brass for chrono testing and matches, used brass for practice. Hope I don't have to rethink this. Thanks for the quick response, Herb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I'm with TDean. I clean new brass before runnung it through my 550. Works pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Never had this happen, but I'd bet money that it's caused by a burr left over from when the cases were trimmed at the factory. I'll also bet money that TDean's solution fixes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I use a .40 powder funnel (when loading .45) to eliminate force needed on the down stroke makes for a muck smoother press, and especially important when using a lee "U" die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I ran into this problem with new .40 brass...I found that tumbling the new brass and increasing the case bell has cured this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR Henney Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 Gentlemen, Did an experiment this evening. (Its an occupational hazard.) As suggested - tumbled 100 new cases for about 3.5 hours, then used a deburring tool on each case. (probably overkill) Soaked the powder funnel in ammonia and scrubbed it with steel wool until there was no signs of brass. Then ran the 100 cases through the press - no primers, powder or bullets. I know this isn't perfect but it was illustrative. Only a couple of cases stuck in the funnel. Pulled the funnel and it was again streaked with brass. TDean - to your point, about 80% of the brass filings were on the plate at station 2 and the rest at station 4 (most in the crimp die) which is set at 0.003 less that the case diameter at its base. TheOtherErik - You suggested that increasing the bell helped. From what to what? I decreased the bell from 0.020 (recommended by Dillon) to 0.015. Thought this would decrease the funnel travel into the case. Although not perfect, tumbling has helped a great deal. Now if the snow would melt, I could chrono the 2 test loads I have.... Thanks again, Herb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Nose Oil! Wipe the oil off your nose with your thumb and index finger and use it to lube the powder funnel about every 5th round. It will keep the sticking to a minimum. If you don't want a black, lead or copper coated nose use a very lightly lubed case lube pad and just touch your index finger to the pad, then wipe it on the side of the powder funnel. Don't use too much and don't put it on the bottom of the funnel or your powder will stick to it. I have been wondering if the 1050 powder funnel would work on the 550 or 650? It's just a tapered funnel without the straight sides of the 550 powder funnel. On the 1050 I can't tell any difference between new brass and used brass on the powder measure. I guess I'll have to try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 HR Henney, Have you tried changing your case lube? If not give the Hornady One Shot lube a try. It is a great lube, less messy than the Dillon stuff, and very easy to apply. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawker Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 No problems with new Starline Brass. I tumble the brass for 30 minutes (with Dillons Lube in the mix). I also use Montana Gold Bullets in .45ACP (230FMJ). Good stuff. Hawker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I thought most people use previously fired brass for their matches, and new brass for practice (if it worked once, it probably will work again). I've only loaded with fired S&B brass, but I haven't had any problems with cases sticking on the funnel, though there is some friction when lowering the ram. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR Henney Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 Just ordered some Starline brass to give it a try. Not at home right now so can't confirm which case lube I'm using - think its RCBS and I'm sure its not Hornaday. The real problem is the inside of the case sticking to the funnel. I've been lubing the cases after tumbling. Added it to the media will lube the inside of the case. How much should I add? As for nose oil, haven't used that since college to fix scratches on photographic negatives! DD - spend a few days with Frank Garcia - the new brass for matches and used brass for practice was his thought on the subject. Thanks for the input, Herb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 HR, Have you considered that your funnel might just be out of spec? Have you tried measuring the OD and calling Dillon to check? They might send you a replacement to try, or you could try reducing the OD on your own. I've loaded a lot of ammo in many different calibers and have NEVER had a case stick on the funnel before. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR Henney Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 EricW, Thought had crossed my mind to have someone take a few thousandths off, but your message prompted me to check. The funnel diameter measures 0.451". Needless to say that's not the problem. Checked the inside diameter of a handful of unfired cases. Measurements vary from 0.446 to 0.449" -- more than a tight fit. Just for grins, checked some once fired cases and as you would expect the ID is greater than 0.451" The three I measured were 0.455". Is this lot of brass suspect or within normal limits? Don't have the experience to tell. Thanks for your input. Herb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 HR, I've got no clue. Ironically enough, I just checked the SAAMI specs and no standard exists for the *interior* dimensions of a cartridge case. So there's really no way to know whether it's right or wrong besides measuring a bunch of different manufacturers' brass and coming up with a "typical" set of dimensions. Strange but true. I'd just shoot the stuff and forget about it. Once it's fired the problem will probably disappear. If not, you know to skip on the Winchester brass again. If you're set on using the Winchester brass (getting a smokin' deal on it?), why not just turn down the funnel a thou or two and forget about it? I don't think it'll hurt a thing. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR Henney Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 EricW Ordered some Starline brass this morning and will give that a try. Either way I'll stick with it (no pun intended). Thanks to all for your advise. Herb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1badmagnum Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 how about replacing the powder measure with a different brand? I know this is a waste of a C note,but headaches are worse than a few lost wages. will a rcbs powder measure work on the 550 b? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR Henney Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 1bad... Suspect it would fit as Dillion uses standard size dies. I think having the funnel turned down by a couple of thou would be the first step simply because it is a lower cost option. Thanks, Herb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Did you check the once-fired brass after resizing? New Starline, or any other new brass sticks on my 550. But after firing, the powder residue seems to serve as a lube for future loading. As someone else said, I just learned to live with it on the new stuff and look forward to the second loading. Lubing the new cases helped, but didn't eliminate the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruzr Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I had the same problem with once fired Federal American Eagle brass. I would get brass streaks that would cause sticking. I ordered another powder funnel to cut down on the stop and clean delays. I spoke to Dillon about it and they said..."shoot it again, it needs more burnishing and will smooth out." I did and it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR Henney Posted February 16, 2003 Author Share Posted February 16, 2003 Alan550, Did check a small sample of once fired factory Winchester brass and its ID was larger than the funnel diameter. Krur, The weight of opinion is to tumble, lube and tolerate it. Running the brass troungh the press dry (no primer, powder or bullet) also seems to have done the trick. Thanks for you insight, Herb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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