XD Niner Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 That's why I liked the half day format. I too shot Friday last year because the nearly two hour lag between shooting opportunites on Saturday/Sunday drove me nuts (Yes, it is a very short trip.) The half day match moved as fast as the single Friday lineup but didn't leave you feeling dog tired by the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Like Boo, I didn't mind the all day format. I even resisted and tried to NOT like the new format. In the end though I really like the half day and would not go back if they change back to the old format. I like the change to the prize table also. There was never a chance to look over the table ahead of time or even when it was your turn. The first year I went you could pick something, but after that they started hearding you through and threw a bag of stuff your way. Broken binoculars, winchester primers in the old white boxes, SPS mag springs, etc. Stuff most people did not need. Giving guns to those that place is great. Keep the targets and everything else the way it is. I sign up knowing that there will be long tight shots, if you don't want to shoot that type of match....don't. I thought the stages were great. The problem with the GA/AL stage was not design, but RO understanding of what was being asked. Neither side completely understood the other, but everything was fine in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) Like Boo, I didn't mind the all day format. I even resisted and tried to NOT like the new format. In the end though I really like the half day and would not go back if they change back to the old format. I like the change to the prize table also. There was never a chance to look over the table ahead of time or even when it was your turn. The first year I went you could pick something, but after that they started hearding you through and threw a bag of stuff your way. Broken binoculars, winchester primers in the old white boxes, SPS mag springs, etc. Stuff most people did not need. Giving guns to those that place is great. Keep the targets and everything else the way it is. I sign up knowing that there will be long tight shots, if you don't want to shoot that type of match....don't. I thought the stages were great. The problem with the GA/AL stage was not design, but RO understanding of what was being asked. Neither side completely understood the other, but everything was fine in the end. Roger, You forgot to complain about the steel targets. Maybe they will have 18-inch plates and 5-ft poppers set up for you next year. Edited February 13, 2008 by Big Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Big Guy, I knew going into it that there would be some tough shots, me not being prepared is nothing to complain to the match organizers about. But, they could make the steel much bigger next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The problem with the GA/AL stage was not design, but RO understanding of what was being asked. Neither side completely understood the other, but everything was fine in the end. ??? Actually, the problem was in set up. I could stand in two boxes at once, legally (stand solely on the board separating the two...). They just needed three separate boxes, spaced 6-12" apart, if they really wanted 3 separate boxes. Again, though, the same challenge could be presented with one shooting area, as well, so.... Incidentally, I saw several folks fault the boxes (one foot each in two different boxes), but penalties were not called on them, so the end effect was one big shooting area anyway.... Don't know if anyone got dinged on those or not, in the end... It did kind of make you stop and focus on where your feet were, though, as you were shooting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAB33 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The way I took it was you could take shots with one foot in one box and one in another box. The requirement was to shoot at least one target from each box. Taking shots while transitioning into another box and having a foot in two boxes just wasn't counted fulfilling the requirements. As long as you shot at a target from each of the 3 boxes(one foot in and the other in or at least off the ground) you were doing what they asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 My understanding was the same as Cliff's. In essence, you only had to fire one round from each of the three boxes while standing completely in that box. For all other shots, straddling the boxes was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The way I took it was you could take shots with one foot in one box and one in another box.The requirement was to shoot at least one target from each box. Taking shots while transitioning into another box and having a foot in two boxes just wasn't counted fulfilling the requirements. As long as you shot at a target from each of the 3 boxes(one foot in and the other in or at least off the ground) you were doing what they asked. This is what I mean. This was my interpretation of the stage. When I asked the question to the RO's they didn't understand my question and that's where the problem was. As long as you were completely in each box for at least 1 shot you were fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 With the pace at which the targets were shot, about the only way they could penalize you with confidence was if you failed to go into a box at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) Well since this is recap and opinions and since you asked I'll throw this out.... I got a lot of the changes we've been bitching about the last few years this year and I think it made it a much better match. Much, much better! The next item I would ask for is level 2 minimum sanctioning. For two reasons; one the match should support the national organization and two it would solve the couple of stage problems by requiring COF approval. I know that is more work for the staff and most all the staff are friends of mine (or were ) but since we're wishing for stuff and all........ For the record regarding stage 10 we were specifically told it was a procedural per shot to 'straddle' between two boxes. We shot that stage Sun morning so either a lot of posters here didn't here the WSB correctly or it changed during the match. This made a pretty big difference on how to approach the stage. I would guess a second or two. Edited February 13, 2008 by SmittyFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AA-Wolf Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Here is my Match Recap for what it's worth. The running of the match and scheduling was GREAT. I was worried with the new format and now am its number one fan. Almost zero down time. RO'ing was some of the best I have dealt with. Friendly and fair. Without them the match would never had stayed on schedule and would have sucked. Big thumbs up and with their effort! The courses of fire were deceivingly tough. All Open targets with different ways to run them. Places to take risks and gain time or easier shoots and loose time. Just what this sport is all about, knowing your own abilities and this match excelled in this aspect. Prize table sounded great. Vendor showing seemed a little weak, but don't know what more was needed, with just about anything you did need being available! All shooters seemed to generally want to help and everyone went to paste, usually only tapping one target due to everyone working! That was very refreshing. And not just my squad (even though we were the best), every squad I watched worked hard. Last but not least was the ability to watch some of the top shooters in the world compete againist each other and me! I don't know another sport where the top professionals compete with regular Joes, but this one you can. If you have the skill you can lay down your money and go for it. Too Cool. This is one of the best matches I have attended in my few short years of IPSC/USPSA and am happy I live so near! Hell, even the weather rocked with only a few moments of liquid sunshine to keep us on our toes.. Sunday was picture perfect and the videos show that. Thanks to everyone for a greatr match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baa Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 This was my first FL Open and my 6th "major" match, though I have experienced both of the scheduling strategies employed at the Open. The 1/2 format is far better than the all day with breaks format. There is very little down time yet you do not end up exhausted at the end of a full day on the range (amazing how just waiting around can be more tiring...) I agree with XRe and Smitty- This match should be a level II match done in conjunction with USPSA. The stages were mostly great. The ones I did not like were the box stages. The rest of the stages were very challenging. I had 3 mikes for the match and feel like that was a pretty good number, given the shooting difficulty. I don't think I shot a split faster than .5 the whole match (with stage 12 being an exception.) /rant on My only big stage gripe is stage 12. It was basically impossible for a left handed shooter to compete on that stage, due to the placement of one target. We had to shoot in the least time efficient manner. Don't get me wrong, I am accustomed to having to "suck it up" as a lefty and normally its not really an issue. Stage 12, with that one target, was one of those rare stages that really screwed us lefties. This could have been so simply addressed by either moving the target or placing a mirror target on the left side of the stage so both lefties and righties were screwed I ended up with a foot fault due to that target and a time which was not competitive due to having to shoot the stage in a undesirable sequence. /rant off One other suggestion- For $200, we should get a tee-shirt or pin, or something. I got a tee-shirt at state level matches with much lower match fees. If nothing else, it is promotion for the match. All in all, I had a great time and will likely shoot the match again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 For the record regarding stage 10 we were specifically told it was a procedural per shot to 'straddle' between two boxes. We shot that stage Sun morning so either a lot of posters here didn't here the WSB correctly or it changed during the match. This made a pretty big difference on how to approach the stage. I would guess a second or two. +1 - IIRC, someone on the squad even demo'ed the question to the ROs and was told specifically that having a foot down in more than one box at a time would be a procedural per shot fired. I know it definitely made us more careful - you didn't want to be the one that they actually called the penalties on, so... Still, I'll take my 3rd place finishes on those two stages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZ Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I really enjoyed the format this year, and will attend again because of it. I wish more matches would use this kind of format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Dilworth Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 the half day format was great. Please keep it. USPSA sanctioned match would be a definite plus. I enjoyed the match and appreciate everyone's time and effort involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt P. Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I really thought everything was perfect. I like the prize table. The only thing on my wish list is that the match were to follow the USPSA rule book. If you could make it stop raining and freezing, that would also be a bonus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The web page did list the new shooting format and it listed lots of guns as prizes, 7-8 more to folks who stayed through awards so I am not sure how to get the word out any better. We will probably do it again next year or until we give up on the perfect match and just go to other matches and shoot.Keep em coming Roy: You guys did a great job and I know you will continue to do so. Somewhere, you should have the email addresses of all who have shot over the past ten years. Send all these shooters a couple of emails next fall and tell them what is happening with the Open. There is also the Enos Forum, USPSA Forum and Area 6 pages. Won't cost a thing and it gets the information directly into the hands of those most likely to come. Sorry I had to cut out early and I will see you next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousekiller Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This was my first Florida Open.. overall I liked the match.. I shot on Friday so it was an all day event.. The setup was different then most matches i've shot i.e. the longer shots on most stage, no swingers, drop turners, clamshells... didn't miss the NO shoots to much I would have liked to have seen a few more swingers etc.. didn't mind the classic targets at all.. We didn't wait between stages on Friday more then a couple of minutes actually, so i can't comment on how it would be on Saturday and Sunday.. Was not quite as prepared for this type of match with the longer shots, but this trip for me was also a family visiting trip and i did have fun.. Was dissapointed about not being able to get a shirt or something for the $$ entry fee, matter of fact I didn't even know you had to pre order them.. when i got there and asked the nice young lady she said there were not really any "extra" shirts.. in retrospect like most matches i should have "known" they needed to be ordered ahead of time.. Prize table? where was that? oh you got to see that if you shot well... hmm.. I'd be just as happy if you cut the prize table down some and lowered the entry fee.. The RO staff was great, even though it rained all Friday Morning.. RO'ng in the rain is not fun.. Overall though I Can't say that i'll make the trip again, match is a tad pricey.. great experience but economically i'll have to see.. Regards. Jeff B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy T Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Thanks for the input folks we have already looked into some of the suggestions. I can address at least one of the issues some of you mentioned (others are not my call) The chrono would be done by "the book" if one of the things out of my control were different but it would entail more staff and more down time for shooters so be careful what you ask for. About this stage design thing; I hear some issues with national championship stages and I believe they are approved by the USPSA gods so that may always be an issue. Shannon you will always be a friend here my man, now go win the world shoot and I can actually tell folk in public that I know you. Sometimes when using the idea method some of your ideas get used and some don't so I try and understand some ideas are just not a great as mine and I suffer with the mere mortals. Thanks to all who came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I have been thinking about the match a good bit and decided to add my comments: First, this has got to be the best Florida Open I have attended. The format (1/2 day) was a HUGE improvement. Honestly, I stayed away because I did not like the waiting between stages I encoutnered in the past. The was a great change. Also, now that I am paying for two shooters, I REALLY appreciate the junior discount. It was great to see all of the juniors there competing. We must keep in mind that they are the future of this sport. As I stated in the other thread, these stages were some of the most challenging I have ever encountered (comparing these to the World Shoot and Nationals). This was not a hoser-fest. It required strategy and accuracy. Bravo! to the stage designers (even Duane Collins who told me he designed Stage 8 ). Also, the staff (ROs, RMs, et al) were great. Their work made things move smoothly. I know what is involved in puting something like this together and I really appreciate what everyone did to make this match happen. I want to echo what Shannon brought up earlier. As a member of USPSA and a Section Coordinator, I would like to see this match be sanctioned by USPSA. It is one of the premier matches in the country. I think USPSA should support it and it should support USPSA. I realize that fees are involved, but I think one or two less guns would be acceptable. USPSA and the Florida Open really must come together for the benefit of the sport. There really needed to be a match booklet. This would have helped the issues regarding stage 10 and 11. For the record, I specifically asked during our walk-through on Saturday if the boxes could be straddled as long as on target was engage while completely in a box and was told this could be done. Perhaps it was a mis-understanding. A booklet with specific requirements could have addressed this. Actually, my only real gripe with these two stages was the ugly decorations that were on them. When the ROs read that we were to engage targets as available, I had to verify that the ugly dog on Stage 11 was not a target. Also, I feel that I was a victim of discrimination in that there was not a beautiful Gamecock anywhere on the range (except for my shirt and shooting bag). One of my past gripes has been with how late everything (shoot-offs, awards, prize-table) concluded. I left around 3:00 Sunday as to get home without having to drive all night. Not sure what time things concluded this year. Yes, I could have stayed another night, but another hotel stay, day of leave, food, etc, would just add to the cost of the trip. So, I'll just deal with it. I do not know how to improve on that. However, I heard the same concerns from many others. Perhaps tweeking the schedule so that the match concludes at 12:00 or 1:00 on Sunday. I feel things flowed so smoothly on Saturday that we could have shot one more stage - there was plenty of daylight. I will conclude by reiterating that this was one of the best matches that I have attended in my 12 years of shooting. It was a huge improvement over past Opens. The 1/2 day format is a winner and I hope it will continue. Thanks again to Roy, Wadette, Leo, Frank, and everyone who worked to put this together. Lord willing, I'll be back next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerwas Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This was the first Florida Open I attended. First the positives: 1) Accuracy was a must at this match, what a change from any of the USPSA matches I attended, including nationals 2) The R/O's were great 3) Stage designs were awesome 4) Very little down time between stages, with exception to the rain delays (I shot all day Friday) 5) We had the option of a healthy lunch ($7 salad). 6) The weather after the noon hour was nice and warm. Much appreciated from a Minnesotan! 7) No no-shoots 8) I liked the shoot offs. Next time I'll have to remember to bring my stuff since I shot on Friday and the shoot off was on Sunday Next comes the negatives: 1) Match booklet, where was it???? 2) Some type of match T-shirt would have been really nice. 3) The prize table was, well,,, 4) It would have been nice to be recognized as the 3rd M class limited shooter to give Venry and Radical Precision designs kudos for the 6" pistol I was shooting. The plaque was there, Frank just overlooked the placement ('kuz I didn't win a pistol). I would imagine other shooters fell into the same catagory where they may have placed, but didn't get called up because they didn't win a pistol either. 5) Overall match fee was spendy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 There really needed to be a match booklet. This would have helped the issues regarding stage 10 and 11. For the record, I specifically asked during our walk-through on Saturday if the boxes could be straddled as long as on target was engage while completely in a box and was told this could be done. Perhaps it was a mis-understanding. A booklet with specific requirements could have addressed this. I would like to see a match booklet, as well, but a booklet doesn't actually address this concern. Remember, the WSB (written stage briefing) and the briefing conducted by the CRO on each stage trumps any other published items. So, what happened here was that the CRO gave different briefings to different squads - something that shouldn't happen. On at least a couple of stages, the briefings were hand written, and some were at least partial ad libed. As long as the same message is delivered to all shooters, that part shouldn't matter - though ad lib'ing is asking for a stage to get thrown out or reshot by a range lawyer. In this case, then, different squads were told different things, even when being asked in specific terms and giving examples - that's not cool at all. The FL Open is somewhat known for fast/loose RO'ing (as mentioned in this thread and the other one). That's not something I consider an advantage to the match, and is one reason why I mentioned preferring to see the match be sanctioned. I will conclude by reiterating that this was one of the best matches that I have attended in my 12 years of shooting. It was a huge improvement over past Opens. The 1/2 day format is a winner and I hope it will continue. +1 here... I can only remember a couple of matches that involved greater challenge and variety, in least in terms of demanding accuracy. The match this year was very high quality. I think the gripes we're exposing in this thread are namely focused at polishing a match that is already a fine example - not condemning it. I would hope the constructive criticism is taken in that regard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I think the gripes we're exposing in this thread are namely focused at polishing a match that is already a fine example - not condemning it. I would hope the constructive criticism is taken in that regard! Absolutely!!!! I agree 100%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 4) It would have been nice to be recognized as the 3rd M class limited shooter to give Venry and Radical Precision designs kudos for the 6" pistol I was shooting. The plaque was there, Frank just overlooked the placement ('kuz I didn't win a pistol). I would imagine other shooters fell into the same catagory where they may have placed, but didn't get called up because they didn't win a pistol either. I have been made aware of approximately 40 plaques that were not distributed at the awards ceremony. That situation is being rectified and the plaques are being mailed out to the winners this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy T Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Again thanks for the input and it is being taken and considered in the spirit of improving what may be some of your concerns. When some issues are considered some competitors opinions are very different so if your suggestion is not instituted does not mean it was not considered. Being a CRO I would love to have everyone feel the rules are applied evenly but so much of that is perception and I am not sure we can ever totally "fix" that. Thanks Jack, I too think the Proud Bird should have been strutting his stuff, by the way, send my football coach back. Match booklet really does not fix any of the concerns I am hearing so don't hold out for one any time soon since the lady who would have to do it also adds up all your misses and she is already plenty busy Duane does have a mean streak when it comes to stage design and we have to live with him all year so count your blessings you only feel the wrath once a year. As already mentioned some of the suggestions are way beyond my pay grade but they will be considered or at least screamed about among us. Thanks again and I hope all of you have a great shooting season as your world begins the spring thaw. Be Safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now