Duane Thomas Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Okay, I have access to a range on which I can shoot just about any time of the day or night. I've got targets; the range has lath and target stands. I can practice draws, reloads, splits, transitions, movement. And this is all good. But what I don't have access to is swingers. Is there any way to practice engaging swinging targets when you don't have actual swingers, or do I have to do my "practice" only when shooting matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I've been racking my brain trying to think of a way to effectively practice on swingers without the swingers. I can't come up with a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 For dry fire I suppose you could tape a mini target to a metronome. For live fire you could just radically swing your body from side to side while shooting at a stationary target. I'm not sure if this would help or not, but you'd sure spook any onlookers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I think the key to shooting swingers is shooting them when they aren't swinging, so your plain targets and stands should work fine. It isn't hard to fabricate a swinger and if they bother you, it might be worth investing a few $ to make one up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I've noticed that the best shooters also shoot the swingers the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I've been thinking all day yesterday about it and I can't come up with anything that doesn't involve some DIY stuff. I was thinking you could use two target stands and put them say 5 ft from eachother. Then staple a strip of plywood (the DIY part) between them at the top. Take two other target stands and do the same thing. now place the first two stands about 2 ft in front of the last two. (I think by now you can see where this is going). Now you've got a frame that can hae one or more swinging targets. To make the frame for the actual target, just take a 3ft piece of round wood, and put a 2x1 (3ft. or depending on the height of the stands) directly in the middle in a 90 degree angle. Now staple the target to the 2x1. The target can swing now. Now all there's left to do is make some kind of activating mechanism. That's the easy part. Have a buddy activate it (from a distance ) by holding the target up with some string and releasing it. I've never tried it, but it's the only thing I could come up with, besides having a buddy hold up a target stand and moving it from left to right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Duane, the COF at Area 1 got me thinking about swingers a couple of weeks ago. It looks like roughly 10% of the match points will be on swingers. I've been out practicing on mine in earnest. But, I found myself wishing I had two or three. L2S made an interesting observation about the swinger being stationary when you actually shoot it. There are of course two ways to engage a swinger. Shoot it where you find it, or swing with it. I practice shooting as many "other" targets as possible between tripping the swinger and shooting it. This precludes me from doing the swinging with the target method very often. To shoot the way I like to, I trip the activator, (ususally a popper) engage a paper or maybe two other poppers and then get the muzzle headed for where the swinger is going to be. I really like it when my gun gets there about .10 ahead of the swinger. At this point it all about calling your shots. It's there, bap-bap, then it aint. It's cool how you can still see the two shots you call on the swinger in your mind after the stage is over. Sans swinger, here is what I recommend. Set up an activator (popper or plate). Then set up a couple of poppers and at least two paper. Set up a paper NS right next to the one you identify as a swinger. Set the improvised "swinger" at about the same angle that a pimp wears his fedora. That's the angle your mind is first going to register when the swinger comes into view. It helps to hold a little "low in the arc". (The swinger will be moving slower below it's center.) Then set a par time of 1 second over what it takes to hit the activator cleanly every time. Focus on a clean, very accurate draw and 1st shot. There is no time for re-adjustment after the action begins. The drill should run something like this: 1.4 to activator. ( find something to shoot while swinger is activated) Shoot another paper or a couple of poppers, get to the "gap" shooting and calling shots, by 2.4 seconds. Then off to the next target. By not having a swinger to work with, your choice is much clearer. If you are cramming for Area 1, adopt the "shoot it where it is" method and don't look back. If you can get your hands on two poppers, rope tie the "activator " to pull the second popper over backwards. See how many other targets you can shoot before the second popper gets away. To my way of thinking, it isn't the motion of the swinger so much as the timing of the rest of the stage that's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I agree that timing the activator-device (swinger, clamshell, turner, mover, etc) device relationship is a very key big match skill. Looking at 'em in the walk through, you think "no way". Shooting the stage, you're sitting there thinking "alright, appear already". Most of that time difference is in the popper falling, and not the actual mechanism moving. Somebody did some cool testing of that a while back-- hopefully that thread got moved over. Assuming you can't even make/borrow even a half-ass swinger, practice indexing to someplace a target isn't, midway through a stage. After that all I can think of is "aim-small, miss small" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Looking at 'em in the walk through, you think "no way". Shooting the stage, you're sitting there thinking "alright, appear already". Man, that's so true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 ...that's why I'm always bringing my stop watch that allows me to review several timed splits on activated targets. Always good to know how much dead time I have to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 We had a good number of swingers at our club match this past weekend, and I find that with swingers in specific, my eyes go to the target and stay there, instead of getting back on the sights. I know what I need to do, but am having one heck of a time doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I have found from experience that if you pick a spot on the berm, or any other visual spot that you can use to setup on the swinger, really helps. First find the A-zone. SO many people shot at the target and not the a-zone. I'll usually find a spot on the berm that I can see easily, once the swinger is activated I will setup on that spot and shoot the swinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Try to remove the intimidation. Set a 10in. plate at different distances, 10, 15, 20 yds and learn your splits. Splits for good, solid sight picture shots. Once you know for sure what you can do at these distances then all you have to do is time the swinger at the match. If you think of the swinger as having 180 deg. of motion, usually you're going to have about 90 deg. worth of view. Now time how long it is available to you. You know what your splits are at that distance and it is either going to be available for that amount of time or it isn't, period. It isn't worth throwing a "hoper" in my opinion. So by using this method you gain a lot of confidence. If you know your split for two solid shots at 15 yds on 10 in. target is .5 and the swinger is available for .8 then you know you have plenty of time to make the shot. If they have more cover on it and it is only available for .45 then you know you can't make the shot without throwing a "hoper". Either way, you know, and that will remove a lot of the intimidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 We had a good number of swingers at our club match this past weekend, and I find that with swingers in specific, my eyes go to the target and stay there, instead of getting back on the sights. I know what I need to do, but am having one heck of a time doing it. It sounds like you are tracking the swinger (which is target focus). I had an eye-opening experience on a stage at the Ohio match a couple of years ago. We had a super-tough stage with a couple of fast swingers that had hardcover on them. On my second shot on the last swinger...I just realized that I didn't know where it was going to hit if I let it loose. My vision was on the swinger. I can't think about it right now without thinking of one of those toy slide-whistles...becasue, in what seemed like slo-motion, my vision sucked back to the front sight and I was able to call the shot. (I'm hearing the slide-whistle just thnking about it) I'm with Paul...pick a spot...the target(A-zone) will have to show up there. Then, use you sight focus. There are only a few GM's that I think can track the swinger and get away with it (with a Limited gun). In fact, I can only think of two that I have seen. (Blake & Matt Trout) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Hey Guys, We had swingers (targets that is )on two of the three stages last night at our weekly practice night. I tried your suggestions of picking a spot on the back stop, and it worked great! Got all of my hits. Thanks for the suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I am not a great shooter, but I know visual noise when I see it. Most (not all) swingers are shootable with two shots while visable between no shoots or hard cover. The difficulty is the distractions, visiual noise I call it, produced by the no-shoot, hard cover, other targets to engage, the wait for it to appear and the side to side target movement its self. The best guys seem to set a reasonable plan for taking available targets after the actuator then shooting the swinger while it is there. It seems to be a little like reading a book while watching TV. You just have to look at the TV at the right time. Drop turners and Clam shells are available for shorter times and seem to be shot at a higher rate. Did I miss swingers at Area 1? I was reading the book when I should have looked at the TV. Nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 "Visual noise"...good stuff. The game I think about when you mention visual noise is pool (8-ball or 9-ball). When shooting pool, there may be other balls near the path my cue ball (or target ball) needs to follow. But, those other balls don't matter. If I execute the shot, then I can ignore the noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherlockWV Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Flex - Lets see if I am getting this. "Visual Noise" represents all other "things" or "potential distractions" that one can visualize. Incuding the swinger??? There was one stage at Tom's where we had a very fast swinger with a no shoot at the bottom. I chose to shoot the activator from the box, then take out the other popers & paper before I appoached the swinger. I hit it but certainly not in the A zone. I have shot a lot of pool but I relate more to "visual noise" with my bow hunting. With bow hunting, one not only has to choose a spot on the deer to shoot but block out any and all branches, vines, trees etc. Is this the same thing you guys are talking about. Good & Safe Shooting - JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 SherlockWV, It sounds like we are on the same page on this. On that swinger at Rayner's... That was just one hard target. Our squad tried to figure a way to skip it...but, it just had to be engaged. Never let the stage design distract you from the shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I think you are on track. Even a fast swinger is available for a reasonable amount of time at a given spot. Other available shoot targets, the no shoot(s), the speed and timing of the swinger are all noise to shut out. The lure of shooting that extra target or even not shooting another target or following the swinger into no-shoot area are noise designed in by a good course designer. Little bits of stimuli that affect your judgment in a negitive way. Bow hunting has lots of those bits of necessary info that can distract if you don't focus on the shot: distance, wind, placement, not making noise or sudden movement. Now if I can just take my own advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherlockWV Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Flex & Nate - Thanks for the confirmation. Something I thought about while reading Nate's reply was an email I received this AM from someone who shot the same match. In his mail he mentioned Poppers in a row where some fell forward and some fell backwards. (not in the referenced match) He said that after his shot, then transitioning to the next popper, he could not help but keep his peripheral vision on the "popper" of his last shot to see if it fell. Now...if i am getting this visual noise (neat term) thing right, then he was "allowing visual noise to affect his next shot. Correct? Good and Safe Shooting - JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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