warpspeed Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 shooterkid Welcome to the forum. There used to be several posts on this topic. Try the search function of the board to see what you can dig up. I use an STI comp on my open IPSC gun. At 165pf, it is very flat. I have heard/read that EGW makes a good one as does Dawson Precision. I'm sure you will get a lot of responses here on this subject. A lot of how the comp works is dependent on your load and recoil spring. So it might take a little experimenting with the load to get the comp to work. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Ii havent been able to find a comp to my likeing. Does anyone know any really good compensators? If so where can i get one. Thanks What exactly are you looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtdShooter Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Give Doug Jones at Doug Jones - Acc-U-Rail a call at (248) 852-6490. He makes excellent titainum comps that are super efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Here's PaulW's latest design....call it the Phat Comp! Nice design, Paul.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Rabbit Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Hey BrianH It's look like STI-S2 and Dawson combined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Well it is kinda. I really liked the Dawson comp but always felt it would be even better with more of a side port....so, I gave BrianH the specs and he built. By the way the machining BrianH does is awesome. And he's flexible, I only changed the design on him, what, 5 or 6 times. Nice guy to work with if your looking for something very well made at a really fair price. Thanks again BrianH, can't wait to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Paul: Are you going to run any hybrid ports, or TJ holes with this comp? Why or why not? I'm going to have my first open gun built, but have no idea what to look for in a comp (I have all the parts, but a barrel, and comp). I was looking at a Tribrid to ease the limited to open transition, but you know this will be a big investment and I would like to get as much info as possible. thanks dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Well this project all started too long ago. I started with the notion of building a short major 9 open gun. Built a 5 inch open gun in 9mm only to find it to restrictive for my taste. So I have scrapped the major 9 project and am going back to super. We are building a shorter, lighter open gun. We are going to shorten slide/barrel by 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Lightening cut in rear, that will probably be the extent of the lightening. Will also most likely use 2 hybrid holes. Size will depend on feel, will start small and work up. The comp I designed has some pretty big ports and I MAY not need the hybrid holes, but if I had to guess I will be using 2 holes. It's going to take some powder to work those big ports, something like HS7, but I'm sure I'll play with several loads. The tribrid is a neat idea but not one I would consider. Now I have not actually shot one so my experiance is limited. The old saying goes, see what the big dogs shot and follow because they probably have tried it. How many big dogs shot tribrids? None that I know off. And the main reason I believe is because a tribrid just does not have the port volume to redirect the gasses upward. Look at the baffles on the comp I designed and look at the baffles on the tribrid, huge difference. Shooting an open gun verses a limited gun is very different. Expect those differences and learn to shoot the open gun. If your pretty good with the limited gun the transition won't take as long as you may fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 As a tribrid shooter I'd say the problem with them is not that the ports don't direct much gas. They actually direct perhaps too much gas (you experience through the shockwave/noise) because the ports are tight to the bore so no gas blows by the bullet like in a standard comp. The problem is that you don't get the gas hitting a baffle plate in each comp chamber, thus no forward push. The highest pressure gas gets used up in only the vertical direction, as opposed to getting the forward push AND vertical thrust from a typical comp chamber. The tribrid/multi-port hybrids come back hard in the hand. The other negative is again the shockwave/noise the user experiences. And your scope options are reduced because that high pressure gas close to the chamber does a number on your scope lens if its too close. The AET barrel has a lot of other great features that make it worthwhile, but getting back to the original question I think at least 4 chambers in a comp is important. Play around with the sizes of each chamber but remember the bigger the chambers the longer the comp and the more weight hanging farther out front. Cone comps are a good bit shorter right off the bat, and you can always add blow holes through the cone later if you want. If you find you have too many comp chambers you can always cut one off later on. Half the fun is designing your own layout. Guys like EGW can make whatever you can dream up. Until we invent a firing platform that can scientifically compare the results of each comp side by side with charts and graphs (and I am trying), your guess is as good as ours so pick a gimmick/design you like and go have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 PaulW: How's that comp working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Anyone shooting a SVI with the Hybrid and a comp? I'm looking to do an open gun and I dont know what to do about the comp questions. Hybrid + Comp Comp Only???? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Regards, John~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 I've been kicking around the notion of an open gun myself. My smith has been in the business for over 20 years or so and is an excellent competitive shooter. He's been making comps for a long....long time,,,,,In the end he says he almost always comes back to 5 ports straight up to get a soft feel or 4 ports straight up and one on the side near the front like BrianH's example for a bit flatter shooting but harder kicking feel. Says any additional ports out the side doesn't efficiently use the gases to give you any forward/downward push and only makes the felt recoil more prevalent. Thanks, H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 jgobbels, If this is your first open gun you might want to start simple. Try a comp only gun with minimal slide lightening. You can always add ports or lighten the slide more later. You might want to stay away from the hybrid at first. They can provide an extremely flat shooting gun but they tend to be a bit extreme in the felt blast department. A good 3 chamber with side ports on the end or a four chamber comp would probably be a good choice. Those two designs are probably the most popular. A bull barrel and comp isn't as lite as a classic barrel and cone comp, but the bull barrel allows an easier way to change comps if you choose to. I'm in the middle of putting together a new open gun myself. I'm planning on using a titanium 4 chamber comp with a Schueman AET bull barrel and 2 ports in the barrel. The reason why is I think this will give me a balanced gun and allow me the flexability of going to a shorter comp later if I choose to without having to change barrels. If you think choosing a comp and barrel can be confusing wait till you start trying to choose the perfect bullet weight and powder combo. If there are any open shooters in your area I'd suggest asking them to let you try their guns. It will might give you a better idea of what you might like in an open gun.Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Anyone shooting a SVI with the Hybrid and a comp? I'm looking to do an open gun and I dont know what to do about the comp questions. Hybrid + Comp Comp Only???? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Regards, John~ John I have shot all combis and now shoot a 4 port hybrid with a 4 port Ti comp. Its what I own and what I use. If I had mucho money I would probably get a new SVI IMM gun. My gun has a lot of rounds on it and runs great. I like a lot of input since I tend to get lazy while shooting. I relate this to riding a Ducati motorcycle. I don't ride but understand they are LIGHT and have great responsiveness. I like that in a gun but there is a break even point to lightening a gun. Weight does help cut down recoil. Last year I a shot a SCARY looking comp just to prove something to myself. I won a bunch with it. You will hear it a million times but buy a good WORKING gun and then buy 25,000 bullets and go practice the correct things if you want Master class. Don't sweat design, It will count .15 % on a match finish now reliability will mean winning your class by 10% or losing it by 35%. Performance consistancy is just as inportant as gun but I digress. If I was starting from scratch today I would either put on a 4 port comp and drill holes in the top of slide/barrel as needed or buy that cool IMM gun. PS Many will freak out that I answered a post, I have been AWOL and hope to shoot soon and maybe even answer posts again . Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 (Hi Bill), I agree with Bill's post. About the best thing you can do is buy a good Open gun from somebody that is moving on. They are the best deals in custom gun buying. And, if the shooter is local, you can likely test drive the gun before you buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 how doy the titanium coms hold up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Bill, Thanks for your input! I'm sorting thru all this information, but have been looking at the IMM also. Best regards, John~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 how doy the titanium coms hold up? They don't but I like them. I saw erosion as early as 5000 rounds. Hey Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 I find that odd, and I think its possible that some have made comps out of a softer alloy. The Ti I use has the same hardness as heat-treated 4140 or stainless, and about twice the tensil strength. Any comp is going to erode, it mostly depends on the powder and the load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 I find that odd, and I think its possible that some have made comps out of a softer alloy. The Ti I use has the same hardness as heat-treated 4140 or stainless, and about twice the tensil strength. Any comp is going to erode, it mostly depends on the powder and the load. My first steel hard chromed comp has over 50,000(all major most at old 175 PF) and looks pretty good. I have used 3N37 almost 100% of the time. If you want to have fun use AA7 and see if barrel or comp wears out first. I am one of the best torture testers out there. I think most Ti comp makers use cheaper Ti because people won't pay for example: $499 for a comp, and that's all they can get as raw stock, anyways. At least that's what they told me. Kind of related to this is I would use Ti hammers and FP and such but they barely last a month sometimes. How come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Hey Bill, glad to have you back man! $499 for a Ti comp. People need to check out BrainH's comps, he's the man. REAL god prices and will build you a first rate comp to your specs. I hope to have some new pictures up soon of my new blaster with his comp on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted May 26, 2003 Share Posted May 26, 2003 Kind of related to this is I would use Ti hammers and FP and such but they barely last a month sometimes. How come? Hardness, mainly.... You can get a hammer made of A2 up to about 65C Rockwell, S-7 up to about 61C. Grade 5 Ti (the most common) is about 33C. Again, similar to 4140, which gets up to about 25C. And Ti 6-4 (grade 5) has a melting temperature of 3000 degrees, most of the carbon steels melt about 2600 to 2800 degrees. So I'm pretty convinced my comps will hold up as well as steel...c'mon, Paul. We need a quick 100,000 through the new blaster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted May 26, 2003 Share Posted May 26, 2003 I'm not an expert on this subject, by any means, but I would also assume that it would also be fun to machine a piece of metal that is 50C+ on the hardness scale! I have made about a dozen Ti comps and usually use a combination of "hogger mills" and solid carbide and do not have a problem unless I start a cut and then back off and allow the area to harden. I have shattered several mills trying to finish the cut afterward. My partner in crime usually hardens the comps after they are cut and they last for a long time ... similar to hard stainless and our 9x25 guns are absolutely BRUTAL on comps. What are your thought on hardening afterward Brian? Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Prob. a good idea. I may start doing that if they don't hold up. I can get them up to about 40C, which is about the hardness of a barrel...and the ti turns a little darker grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcschwenke Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Here are a couple other materials to try. Both are stainless steel and very strong 17-4ph annealed condition is 34 rockwell C and at H900 condition (1 hour at 900 degree F) is 45 rockwell C. Yield is more 180,000 psi. custom 465 annealed is 34 Rockwell C and 55 in condition H900 (4 hour at 900 F) yield is 230,000 psi. Much more than almost anything. TI is only 150,000 psi for 6al4V the most common. I've used 17-4 on comps for 22 rimfire through 7mm BR. No problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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