SteveZ Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Ya know....last time the USPSA cut loose a bunch of new classifiers (2006), a bunch of problems were found in those too (by members here)....it seems the same thing has happened again. You'd think that they (the USPSA) would post them here (or on the USPSA forums) for review before making them official and avoid any revision process AFTER they were released. I wonder who the 1911 Design Team is....this oversight (and others) seems like they should have been caught on the first pass without having to expect shooters to understand what they "intended". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 --- snip --- but does not designate Box A as the shooting area.Bill Nor does the diagram show where the "shooting area" is! The only shooting related area on the diagram is Box A which pretty much means stay in the box! Later, Chuck "Pretty much" doesn't hack it on a classifier. Classifier descriptions need to be very specific and very clear. No one should have to assume anything, or try to determine what the "intent" of the designer was. There have been more than a few classifiers removed from the list over the years just because of this lack of clarity. The WSB should define Box A as the shooting area. Or specify that all shots must be from Box A. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 ....... can't think of a faster way to close this thread, can you ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Looking at 08-01, I can see where this is going to cause problems. My assumption, based on the way the scoresheet is layed out, is that the INTENT of the classifier is to end with 6 rounds on each of the four targets. But, I don't see anything in the stage description that mandates this. Based on what I am seeing, you could end the stage with 12 shots on each of two targets and be perfectly within the rules and stage description. Anyone see something I am missing, or does this classifier probably need a bit of rework? Or maybe its designed to give the shooter lots of options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) The constructive thing to do would be to direct your concerns to Sedro so they can ammend the WSB if they feel inclined to do so... Edited December 24, 2007 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingchange Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Looking at 08-01, I can see where this is going to cause problems. My assumption, based on the way the scoresheet is layed out, is that the INTENT of the classifier is to end with 6 rounds on each of the four targets. But, I don't see anything in the stage description that mandates this. Based on what I am seeing, you could end the stage with 12 shots on each of two targets and be perfectly within the rules and stage description.Anyone see something I am missing, or does this classifier probably need a bit of rework? Or maybe its designed to give the shooter lots of options? Maybe, but the scoring is "Best 6/paper" so I'm not sure how that would help the shooter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Rodgers Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 08-03 and 08-04 both show a "US Popper". Not a big deal, but since the 04 rules, these have been Mini Pepper Poppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) 08-04 Seven, Looks Like a fun one. What do you think, shoot the popper first or go back to get T2? Ahhhhh-----Why don't you just shoot it from the right or left of the box so you can shoot T2 past the popper? It doesn't say you have to shoot from box A. It says you have to engage the targets from "the shooting area", but does not designate Box A as the shooting area. Bill I would shoot it T1 PP1 T2 T3. Or reverse. I don't think the US popper will need to fall to see T2 since they are 5 feet tall. I would also do this from the Box A since by the rulebook you may NOT game a classifier stage. PS T3 T1 PP1 T2 seems like a good choice too Edited December 23, 2007 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Looking at 08-01, I can see where this is going to cause problems. My assumption, based on the way the scoresheet is layed out, is that the INTENT of the classifier is to end with 6 rounds on each of the four targets. But, I don't see anything in the stage description that mandates this. Based on what I am seeing, you could end the stage with 12 shots on each of two targets and be perfectly within the rules and stage description.Anyone see something I am missing, or does this classifier probably need a bit of rework? Or maybe its designed to give the shooter lots of options? Maybe, but the scoring is "Best 6/paper" so I'm not sure how that would help the shooter.... Sure, you can engage only two targets, with twelve rounds each. Just don't be surprised to wind up with two targets with six hits each, and two more with six misses each as well as a failure to engage penalty for those two targets when we score the stage..... Amidon's already said this a couple of times in his column: Classifiers, esp. the stand in one place kind, are not supposed to be gamed. They're to be straight up tests of shooting, not thinking, ability.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunuva Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 08-04 Seven, Looks Like a fun one. What do you think, shoot the popper first or go back to get T2? Ahhhhh-----Why don't you just shoot it from the right or left of the box so you can shoot T2 past the popper? It doesn't say you have to shoot from box A. It says you have to engage the targets from "the shooting area", but does not designate Box A as the shooting area. Bill I would shoot it T1 PP1 T2 T3. Or reverse. I don't think the US popper will need to fall to see T2 since they are 5 feet tall. I would also do this from the Box A since by the rulebook you may NOT game a classifier stage. PS T3 T1 PP1 T2 seems like a good choice too Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunuva Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) oops doubled up Edited December 23, 2007 by Sunuva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Steeler Standards is just Riverdale Standards with turtle targets. I guess if you're preping for the Flordia Open or an overseas match this would be good. All look interesting. It is always good to have a few more classifiers to choose from. Does anyone know why 99-54 Tuff Enough Standards was given the heave-ho? I never had the opportunity to shoot that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Does anyone know why 99-54 Tuff Enough Standards was given the heave-ho? I never had the opportunity to shoot that one. Look at the Stage Description here. Since it was removed for violating the new 2008 rules, my best guess is that there's insufficient A-zone availability on T1...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gundry Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Question about the strong/weak hand stuff... String 1:On signal, engage one target with only six rounds freestyle, make a mandatory reload and engage another target with only six rounds strong hand unsupported. String 2: From Box A only, engage T1-T4 with only oneround each freestyle, then perform a mandatory reload, then re-engage T1-T4 with one round each strong hand only. String 3: From Box A only, engage T1-T4 with one round each weak hand only. So would you start each string using both hands, then after the reload switch to strong/weak hand only as directed or is the whole string to be shot single handed? Sorry if this is seen as 'gaming' - it is a genuine question from a newbie... Also, "_____ hand only" is the same as "______ hand unsupported", correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Question about the strong/weak hand stuff...String 1:On signal, engage one target with only six rounds freestyle, make a mandatory reload and engage another target with only six rounds strong hand unsupported. String 2: From Box A only, engage T1-T4 with only oneround each freestyle, then perform a mandatory reload, then re-engage T1-T4 with one round each strong hand only. String 3: From Box A only, engage T1-T4 with one round each weak hand only. So would you start each string using both hands, then after the reload switch to strong/weak hand only as directed or is the whole string to be shot single handed? Sorry if this is seen as 'gaming' - it is a genuine question from a newbie... Also, "_____ hand only" is the same as "______ hand unsupported", correct? Since the first part of the string is freestyle, you can shoot it however you want, but it will probably be faster if you use both hands. There is not much gaming you can do when it comes to stage procedures regarding strong/weak hand. Yes, __ hand only would be the same as ___ hand unsupported. In string 3 of 08-02, you just draw and engage targets weak hand only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Question about the strong/weak hand stuff...String 1:On signal, engage one target with only six rounds freestyle, make a mandatory reload and engage another target with only six rounds strong hand unsupported. String 2: From Box A only, engage T1-T4 with only oneround each freestyle, then perform a mandatory reload, then re-engage T1-T4 with one round each strong hand only. String 3: From Box A only, engage T1-T4 with one round each weak hand only. So would you start each string using both hands, then after the reload switch to strong/weak hand only as directed or is the whole string to be shot single handed? Sorry if this is seen as 'gaming' - it is a genuine question from a newbie... Also, "_____ hand only" is the same as "______ hand unsupported", correct? Since the first part of the string is freestyle, you can shoot it however you want, but it will probably be faster if you use both hands. There is not much gaming you can do when it comes to stage procedures regarding strong/weak hand. Yes, __ hand only would be the same as ___ hand unsupported. In string 3 of 08-02, you just draw and engage targets weak hand only. Draw free style, and transfer to weak before firing any shots, for the last string. They did not bother to spell it out, figuring everyone knew rule 8.2.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gundry Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Since the first part of the string is freestyle, you can shoot it however you want, but it will probably be faster if you use both hands. There is not much gaming you can do when it comes to stage procedures regarding strong/weak hand. Yes, __ hand only would be the same as ___ hand unsupported. In string 3 of 08-02, you just draw and engage targets weak hand only. Ahhh, missed the word "freestyle" in there - now all is clear. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I think SIX and SEVEN look very interesting. While 4 Bill Drill does nothing for me, the stage called Area 4 Standards looks intersting. 3 Bill Drills in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos SC Shooter Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Well now with in a matter of two weeks I will have shot 08-03 "Six" twice. I did pretty well on the first go but had one extra shot. We'll see if I nail it this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 We'll see if I nail it this weekend. Care to make a friendly wager this weekend? C'mon Drew! A $500 Glock shooting minor against your well machined boomstick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 We'll see if I nail it this weekend. Care to make a friendly wager this weekend? C'mon Drew! A $500 Glock shooting minor against your well machined boomstick? Pay him no mind Drew. He's just trying to pay for some new Krylon. His holster needs a new coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Tom is running 7 at the next match...fwiw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 We'll see if I nail it this weekend. Care to make a friendly wager this weekend? C'mon Drew! A $500 Glock shooting minor against your well machined boomstick? ?! What ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austex Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 08-03 and 08-04 both show a "US Popper".Not a big deal, but since the 04 rules, these have been Mini Pepper Poppers. Where is the hardcover on T2 of 08-04 supposed to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now