Draws <5y

[j1b]

I have noticed in practice that I need to practice the draw and the follow-up shot. If I focus on just the draw my second shot takes much longer than I expected.

Great observation. I tend to notice that my one shot draws are nearly always faster than a two shot draw. Which may be why I rarely ever replicate my fastest one shot draw in a match.

At a match I can't give myself the luxury of "throwing one" like I might be able to in practice.

Merlin mentions a 1.2, to me if I hit a 1.2 on a target like this and get the 2 A's - no harm no foul. Is it my fastest possible? Nope - but does it beat a .9 with a D? Probably (I haven't done the hit factor on that). Even if, mathematically, it worked out that dropping the points was worth the time . . . it doesn't work for my mental game to all of the sudden accept that dropping points is acceptable. I'd rather get the points at a lower hit factor on that target and give myself a better mental approach at the total stage/match.

J

[EZ Bagger]

7 points / .9 = 7.7778

10 points/ 1.2 = 8.3334

[j1b]

7 points / .9 = 7.7778

10 points/ 1.2 = 8.3334

Thx. I was just being lazy.

J

[EZ Bagger]

7 points / .9 = 7.7778

10 points/ 1.2 = 8.3334

Thx. I was just being lazy.

J

The curse of the CPA...10 keys are too often nearby.

[HoMiE]

7 points / .9 = 7.7778

10 points/ 1.2 = 8.3334

Thx. I was just being lazy.

J

If your shooting production (minor scoring) it's even worse, an A-D is only 6 points.

6 points / .9 seconds = 6.6666 HF

[JThompson]

Flat out a .74-.78. No way in hell I would even try that in a match. For the distance we are talking here my comfort zone is 1-1.4 depending on how good a look I get at the dot.

[HoMiE]

Flat out a .74-.78. No way in hell I would even try that in a match. For the distance we are talking here my comfort zone is 1-1.4 depending on how good a look I get at the dot.

I don't even look at the dot at <5yds on the draw, get the index down and look for the bullet hole in the target.

[XRe]

At short range, I can comfortably nail A-zones in .85-.90. In practice, I can push that down to a .75 pretty easily. Can't recall a draw faster than a .71 in practice. The trick, though, as many have mentioned, is not how fast you can let the first piece of lead fly into a close target - but how fast can you do that on a distant, tight target, and hit the A-zone. That's where your draw will really differentiate you.

There are much easier ways to make up time in a course of fire than having a faster draw - however, its worthwhile to get faster at them, even in matches. If you take that draw difference (say, you're 2 tenths slower than a top GM) and multiply it by the number of stages in a match (say, 12, like the upcoming FL Open), you're handing away that much time before the match starts (that's right - 2.4 seconds in this example). In USPSA, a fast draw will almost certainly not win the match for you outright - but a slow one is surely going to chip away at your score in a very real way. In Steel Challenge events, the draw is a huge part of the time on each run, so go figure why you'd want to practice draw speed there

[XRe]

look for the bullet hole in the target.

Sorry, man, that's too slow. If you're scoring your hits by looking at holes, you're not calling shots - even at exceptionally close range, you should always be calling shots, so you'll know where the shot went even before the target does...

[Jake Di Vita]

Sorry, man, that's too slow. If you're scoring your hits by looking at holes, you're not calling shots - even at exceptionally close range, you should always be calling shots, so you'll know where the shot went even before the target does... wink.gif

I disagree Dave.

Under 5 yards I will pretty much shoot exclusively with a target focus.

Calling your shots does not require you to be looking at anything in particular, which is I believe a common misconception and why many shooters have difficulty defining what calling your shots truly means. To call your shots the only thing required is knowing exactly where the bullet will impact as soon as you fire the shot.

If you are shooting by exclusively reading the target then you are losing time, however you can shoot relying on your index while looking at the target (and seeing the holes appear).

People can shoot efficiently focusing on only the sights and people can shoot efficiently focusing on only the target. You start to get problems when you don't focus on either - which is a much more common problem than most people think.

Anyways, back to the original point. I personally shoot targets at that range with a target focus, if I'm visually aware enough I can score the holes visually while I'm shooting without costing me time. Although I do agree that calling your shots in paramount at all distances, just because you look at the holes (perhaps "see" the holes would be better wording) doesn't mean you aren't calling your shots.

[HoMiE]

I should clarify and say that I am not looking for the holes on every shot. I only do that on close targets for the first shot, relying more on my index and looking through the gun so to speak with iron sights and I usually have target focus with open gun.

[AlamoShooter]

A few times on paper I see the holes open in the target before the gun moves in recoil. See as in after completing the stage rewind the mental video and come up with a description of what I saw.

Its kind of a cool thing to enjoy after the score is recorded.

See hole to me as in Observe what is happening. To me its what makes all of it worth doing = Just to find what your eyes /brain is capable of.

[XRe]

If you are shooting by exclusively reading the target then you are losing time, however you can shoot relying on your index while looking at the target (and seeing the holes appear).

And that was exactly my point. Guess you don't disagree, then?

lthough I do agree that calling your shots in paramount at all distances, just because you look at the holes (perhaps "see" the holes would be better wording) doesn't mean you aren't calling your shots.

If you are looking at your holes on the target, as in focusing on them and registering their position consciously, you are most definitely not calling your shots (this is what is required to "score the holes as you shoot them"). If you are calling your shots, shooting with a target focus, and you happen to be aware of holes appearing right where you called your shots, then you're not only doing the right thing, but your awareness is really dialed in - the only thing you can possibly do wrong here is to let your conscious mind take over and make a comment like "gee, look at those holes!".

[XRe]

I should clarify and say that I am not looking for the holes on every shot. I only do that on close targets for the first shot, relying more on my index and looking through the gun so to speak with iron sights and I usually have target focus with open gun.

Shooting with a target focus is not a problem, with either type of gun (assuming that its appropriate for the target presentation). Looking purposefully for where the first hole appears on the target is a problem - you are shooting in the past tense. See previous post

[HoMiE]

I should clarify and say that I am not looking for the holes on every shot. I only do that on close targets for the first shot, relying more on my index and looking through the gun so to speak with iron sights and I usually have target focus with open gun.

Shooting with a target focus is not a problem, with either type of gun (assuming that its appropriate for the target presentation). Looking purposefully for where the first hole appears on the target is a problem - you are shooting in the past tense. See previous post

I get what your saying and I guess my wording makes it look like I am searching for a bullet hole, but that is not the case. I guess it is more in line with the previous post where you say you are aware of holes appearing where you are calling your shot. It is difficult to describe shooting becasue it doesn't happen in the past or the future, it takes place in the moment you are doing it.

I agree that speeding up your draw on distant, tight targets is where it's at. I usually practice drawing to a 8 in. plate at 15 yds.+

[boz1911]

Flat out a .74-.78. No way in hell I would even try that in a match. For the distance we are talking here my comfort zone is 1-1.4 depending on how good a look I get at the dot.

Replace dot with front sight and this exactly what I look for also.

[Zerwas]

If a person picks out A SPOT on a close up target of <5 yards away, the hands will bring that pistol to where your eyes are looking. If the same person looks at the target as a whole target the shots will not be as accurate. When being target focused, you must pick out a spot on that target and concentrate on that spot. It has worked very well for me over the years. I notice that when I'm loosing focus and not really concentrating on a spot my shots tend to open up a lot.

[bkeeler]

Sorry, man, that's too slow. If you're scoring your hits by looking at holes, you're not calling shots - even at exceptionally close range, you should always be calling shots, so you'll know where the shot went even before the target does... wink.gif

I disagree Dave.

Under 5 yards I will pretty much shoot exclusively with a target focus.

Calling your shots does not require you to be looking at anything in particular, which is I believe a common misconception and why many shooters have difficulty defining what calling your shots truly means. To call your shots the only thing required is knowing exactly where the bullet will impact as soon as you fire the shot.

If you are shooting by exclusively reading the target then you are losing time, however you can shoot relying on your index while looking at the target (and seeing the holes appear).

People can shoot efficiently focusing on only the sights and people can shoot efficiently focusing on only the target. You start to get problems when you don't focus on either - which is a much more common problem than most people think.

Anyways, back to the original point. I personally shoot targets at that range with a target focus, if I'm visually aware enough I can score the holes visually while I'm shooting without costing me time. Although I do agree that calling your shots in paramount at all distances, just because you look at the holes (perhaps "see" the holes would be better wording) doesn't mean you aren't calling your shots.

I agree w/Jake. Look at this link under conclusion about Jerry Barnhart.

http://www.maxmichel.com/MakeShotsCount.htm

BK

[zhunter]

FWIW, I hit a 1.05 in a match yesterday at 8 yards from Single Stack gear.

On close targets, i.e. 5 yards or less, I pick out a single paster to focus my eyes on and "aim" for on what I would call an index target.

[Jman]

So WOW, I'm slow officially.

This is ALL I got. From this years TGO's Drillmasters.

From 7 yards. Surrender. 10 one shot "strings" Classic Ipsc target. (amoeba)

March 2007 monthly certified drill. Total 14.97 seconds. Dropped .50 second due to a "C".

October 2007 Nationals. Total 14.79 seconds. Again dropped .50 second due to a "C".

This was embarrassing but somehow I feel cleansed.

...you know I could've been quicker had TGO not been sitting there in the shade reminding

us how old and pathetic we've become.

Jim M

P.S. God bless the Leatham family and give them strength.

[JThompson]

So WOW, I'm slow officially.

This is ALL I got. From this years TGO's Drillmasters.

From 7 yards. Surrender. 10 one shot "strings" Classic Ipsc target. (amoeba)

March 2007 monthly certified drill. Total 14.97 seconds. Dropped .50 second due to a "C".

October 2007 Nationals. Total 14.79 seconds. Again dropped .50 second due to a "C".

This was embarrassing but somehow I feel cleansed.

...you know I could've been quicker had TGO not been sitting there in the shade reminding

us how old and pathetic we've become.

Jim M

P.S. God bless the Leatham family and give them strength.

I ran a plate rack, draw shoot one draw shoot one, from 10yds hit 5, the last one was a mental break thinking I was doing good and don't fk this up.... draws were from .94-.98 with a 1.02. I thought that was pretty good for an old slow C shooter with a gut and bad eyes. I should be honest and mention that the rack has 10' plates and not 8'.

JT

[Paradox]

The last time I checked this skill was during the summer. Three of my shooting buddies were going for broke on draws. Drawing a G22 from a Blade Tech DOH @ 5yds - First draw was a .74, then I pushed a bit for a .62, the last two draws were a .53 and a .52. (I decided to stop while I was ahead). All A's. However, if I am going to shoot more than 1 round on a target and in a match, I am very happy with a .90 - 1.1 and a solid / consistent grip.

I found that that drawing to 8" plates @ 25+ with the goal of always hitting them and dropping time was a far better drill (for me). Shooting at that distance really helps fine tune my draw.

[Shay1911]

Are you draw times from a race holster, a drop holster or "normal" holster? Double action first shot or single action?

I did 1.05, true double action first shot from a drop holster at 7 yards.

[JThompson]

Are you draw times from a race holster, a drop holster or "normal" holster? Double action first shot or single action?

I did 1.05, true double action first shot from a drop holster at 7 yards.

race=cr speed sti open gun

Edited December 19, 2007 by JThompson