Never rec'd Ballot, never had chance to vote

[Rob Boudrie]

One of my jobs on the board is chairman of the audit committee.

I would like to receive the following information from a few people who did not receive ballots:

Member number

Full name & address

Any info about recent change of address

I will only use 6 selected at random. My intention is to contact the CPA firm and request confirmation that ballots were sent to these individuals. While I have absolute confidence in Dave Thomas and the USPSA office staff, proper audit procedure is to do a verification of a sample of the data directly with the firm conducting the election.

If I get more than 6, I will verify only 6, and will select them from different states if possible - my goal is a small statistical sampling to confirm that ballots were actually sent for members of that sample, not conduct an exhaustive third party examination of every inquiry.

Please PM me with this info so I have it in one place.

[JThompson]

One of my jobs on the board is chairman of the audit committee.

I would like to receive the following information from a few people who did not receive ballots:

Member number

Full name & address

Any info about recent change of address

I will only use 6 selected at random. My intention is to contact the CPA firm and request confirmation that ballots were sent to these individuals. While I have absolute confidence in Dave Thomas and the USPSA office staff, proper audit procedure is to do a verification of a sample of the data directly with the firm conducting the election.

If I get more than 6, I will verify only 6, and will select them from different states if possible - my goal is a small statistical sampling to confirm that ballots were actually sent for members of that sample, not conduct an exhaustive third party examination of every inquiry.

Please PM me with this info so I have it in one place.

PMed you Rob

[ChrisStock]

PM sent

[BrianH]

Baby makes 3.

[Ted Murphy]

My problem with not receiving a ballot was not due to a change of address, it has remained the same for several years.

Prior to the deadline I called headquarters and asked for a ballot. I was told I was ineligible as my membership was not valid on 6/14/2007, the date they said was when they sent their membership list to the CPA firm.

I figured they got me there, as I knew there was a small lapse of membership this year. I did renew it two days prior to the summer blast in July, so it was a short lapse.

Thing is, tonight I dug out my copies of front sight, and right on the label was my membership expiration date, 30 June, 2007.

So I was in fact a member in good standing on 6/14/2007.

So I don't know WTF happened in Sedro Wooley, but they were culling members from the list of eligible voters they should not have. Be that mistake, oversight, or what have you- but something happened.

Ted

Edited October 18, 2007 by Ted Murphy

[driver8M3]

as long as the us postal service is involved in delivering the ballots...some members are not going to get theirs.

jack: if 100% of your section's members voted why would that make you feel better? our organization is about shooting. the voting...sure it's something, but none of the candidates want to run uspsa into the ground, so i can understand and accept apathy towards our election. in politics, elections are EVERYTHING, so it's appropriate that they focus on elections and all the related data. shooting is to uspsa what an election is to politics. our biggest problem isn't members that are apathetic towards voting...our biggest problem is members that are apathetic towards shooting.

[Jack Suber]

as long as the us postal service is involved in delivering the ballots...some members are not going to get theirs.

jack: if 100% of your section's members voted why would that make you feel better? our organization is about shooting. the voting...sure it's something, but none of the candidates want to run uspsa into the ground, so i can understand and accept apathy towards our election. in politics, elections are EVERYTHING, so it's appropriate that they focus on elections and all the related data. shooting is to uspsa what an election is to politics. our biggest problem isn't members that are apathetic towards voting...our biggest problem is members that are apathetic towards shooting.

Sorry for the delay in responding - I have been on the road. 100% of our membership voting is not realistic. However, 55%+ in any type of election is considered good representation. 36% is not acceptable and in a political arena would be considered failure. I just want to know if the number of people who voted is representative of the number of "active" shooters we have here. If not, then I want to try to figure out why? If it is, then I need to figure out a way to get these folks back into shooting. I do want to know what the voting percentage is in my section. I feel as a section coordinator, I should be provided that information. I am starting to see a decline in participation and loss of clubs. I honestly have no clue how many members we have in S.C. I have an idea of the active members but not the membership overall. If there are some who dropped out for a while (still members but just haven't shot in a while), I want to get them back involved. If I do not increase our participation, my "burnout" factor among volunteers will increase. I have a feeling that there is a direct correlation between the voting apathy and "participation" apathy. Perhaps there isn't? But is it not prudent to find out?

Here is the bigger picture: Gun laws are going to get more restrictive and this will have a significant impact on our sport. Our membership will have to be more involved to protect our right to participate in this sport. If we can not get more than 36% to participate in an election of out leaders, we are in trouble when it gets to a more pressing issue.

As we have seen here, there are a number of people who never received ballots. If representation here is a fraction of USPSA membership, then the problem could be larger. IF this is the case, then it must be looked into and corrected. Ignoring the problem is dangerous.

[Jim Norman]

Here is an idea.

Why can't USPSA send to the SC's a list of all membersresiding in their respective section? Since this is offical business, and not an outside sale of the list, I would think that this should be acceptable, then the SC could contact his membership to ask questions or propmote matches etc.

Alternatively and more costly, woud be for the communication to come from USPSA HQ but originated by the SC. In onter words the SC could write a letter and USPSA could email it or snail mail it or insert it into the publications that are regularly sent out. Downside is that hte SC doesn;t know who is getting and that USPSA incurs costs. Upsode is that the membership names are not released.

Just two thoughts on how to communicate better.

Jim

[JohnRodriguez]

My problem with not receiving a ballot was not due to a change of address, it has remained the same for several years.

Prior to the deadline I called headquarters and asked for a ballot. I was told I was ineligible as my membership was not valid on 6/14/2007, the date they said was when they sent their membership list to the CPA firm.

I figured they got me there, as I knew there was a small lapse of membership this year. I did renew it two days prior to the summer blast in July, so it was a short lapse.

Thing is, tonight I dug out my copies of front sight, and right on the label was my membership expiration date, 30 June, 2007.

So I was in fact a member in good standing on 6/14/2007.

So I don't know WTF happened in Sedro Wooley, but they were culling members from the list of eligible voters they should not have. Be that mistake, oversight, or what have you- but something happened.

Ted

Ted, 2 years ago I went thru this exact thing you are going thru. Sendro told me the same thing, and I fired off some e-mails that got some people pretty upset. and dispite what they said, I have the bank statement that shows I paid my dues in May. I went ahead and paid for a 3 year membership to make sure it would not happen again. It may upset some people again, but i think that my theory of why it happend are true.

[Ted Murphy]

[

Ted, 2 years ago I went thru this exact thing you are going thru. Sendro told me the same thing, and I fired off some e-mails that got some people pretty upset. and dispite what they said, I have the bank statement that shows I paid my dues in May. I went ahead and paid for a 3 year membership to make sure it would not happen again. It may upset some people again, but i think that my theory of why it happend are true.

I don't know why they did it. If it was to make me buy a 3 year membership they are out of luck.

(edited to remove something heavily spiteful)

Edited October 18, 2007 by Ted Murphy

[bgary]

Prior to the deadline I called headquarters and asked for a ballot. I was told I was ineligible as my membership was not valid on 6/14/2007, the date they said was when they sent their membership list to the CPA firm.

I figured they got me there, as I knew there was a small lapse of membership this year. I did renew it two days prior to the summer blast in July, so it was a short lapse.

Thing is, tonight I dug out my copies of front sight, and right on the label was my membership expiration date, 30 June, 2007.

So I was in fact a member in good standing on 6/14/2007.

So I don't know WTF happened in Sedro Wooley, but they were culling members from the list of eligible voters they should not have. Be that mistake, oversight, or what have you- but something happened.

I have no way of knowing who you talked to at Sedro, or what they said, but... none of them have the power to over-rule the USPSA bylaws.

What those bylaws say is :

6.5 Election by Ballot:

The Executive Director shall create a list of eligible voters in accordance with Article 6.3 on the first business day of July in the year of the election. The Board of Directors shall cause ballots for each contested election, to be printed and delivered to a certified public accounting firm selected by the Executive Director at the direction of the Board by July 15th of each election year.

So... if your membership expired on 6/30/07, *that* is why you didn't get a ballot. You weren't an "eligible voter" on July 1st. There are no "June" dates anywhere in the bylaws, with regard to eligibility for voting.

Sucks, I know. But... it sorta isn't Sedro's fault. They're doing what the bylaws require them to do. And the bylaws are there to ensure that the election is as fair, transparent and impartial as possible. They don't "cull voters from the list".... they simply make a list of eligible voters, in accordance with the bylaws.

bruce

[Ted Murphy]

Why did they say 6/14 to me then?

The name bonnie comes to mind btw. Though that could of been who the lady I talked to said I needed to speak to.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Ted Murphy

[JThompson]

Prior to the deadline I called headquarters and asked for a ballot. I was told I was ineligible as my membership was not valid on 6/14/2007, the date they said was when they sent their membership list to the CPA firm.

I figured they got me there, as I knew there was a small lapse of membership this year. I did renew it two days prior to the summer blast in July, so it was a short lapse.

Thing is, tonight I dug out my copies of front sight, and right on the label was my membership expiration date, 30 June, 2007.

So I was in fact a member in good standing on 6/14/2007.

So I don't know WTF happened in Sedro Wooley, but they were culling members from the list of eligible voters they should not have. Be that mistake, oversight, or what have you- but something happened.

I have no way of knowing who you talked to at Sedro, or what they said, but... none of them have the power to over-rule the USPSA bylaws.

What those bylaws say is :

6.5 Election by Ballot:

The Executive Director shall create a list of eligible voters in accordance with Article 6.3 on the first business day of July in the year of the election. The Board of Directors shall cause ballots for each contested election, to be printed and delivered to a certified public accounting firm selected by the Executive Director at the direction of the Board by July 15th of each election year.

So... if your membership expired on 6/30/07, *that* is why you didn't get a ballot. You weren't an "eligible voter" on July 1st. There are no "June" dates anywhere in the bylaws, with regard to eligibility for voting.

Sucks, I know. But... it sorta isn't Sedro's fault. They're doing what the bylaws require them to do. And the bylaws are there to ensure that the election is as fair, transparent and impartial as possible. They don't "cull voters from the list".... they simply make a list of eligible voters, in accordance with the bylaws.

bruce

That's interesting Bruce.. I didn't know about the July date. I went back and checked my join date and it was 6/14 so I should have made it.

[bgary]

Why did they say 6/14 to me then?

Have no idea. My only point is that the "authority" for the election is the bylaws. The eligibility requirements and process are all laid out there for anyone to see, and... nobody in the office has the authority to do something that conflicts with the bylaws.

That's, by the way, how we avoid becoming a dictatorship

b

[Alan Meek]

Prior to the deadline I called headquarters and asked for a ballot. I was told I was ineligible as my membership was not valid on 6/14/2007, the date they said was when they sent their membership list to the CPA firm.

I figured they got me there, as I knew there was a small lapse of membership this year. I did renew it two days prior to the summer blast in July, so it was a short lapse.

Thing is, tonight I dug out my copies of front sight, and right on the label was my membership expiration date, 30 June, 2007.

So I was in fact a member in good standing on 6/14/2007.

So I don't know WTF happened in Sedro Wooley, but they were culling members from the list of eligible voters they should not have. Be that mistake, oversight, or what have you- but something happened.

I have no way of knowing who you talked to at Sedro, or what they said, but... none of them have the power to over-rule the USPSA bylaws.

What those bylaws say is :

6.5 Election by Ballot:

The Executive Director shall create a list of eligible voters in accordance with Article 6.3 on the first business day of July in the year of the election. The Board of Directors shall cause ballots for each contested election, to be printed and delivered to a certified public accounting firm selected by the Executive Director at the direction of the Board by July 15th of each election year.

So... if your membership expired on 6/30/07, *that* is why you didn't get a ballot. You weren't an "eligible voter" on July 1st. There are no "June" dates anywhere in the bylaws, with regard to eligibility for voting.

Sucks, I know. But... it sorta isn't Sedro's fault. They're doing what the bylaws require them to do. And the bylaws are there to ensure that the election is as fair, transparent and impartial as possible. They don't "cull voters from the list".... they simply make a list of eligible voters, in accordance with the bylaws.

bruce

Also need the following section of the bylaws

6.3 Eligibility to Vote:

Eligibility to vote requires a current USPSA membership with an original membership date prior to May 1 of the year of the election.

Alan

[Coolduckboy]

Hopefully this will get fixed. I believe they need to overhaul the election/ballot process and they have 4 years to do it.

[JThompson]

Prior to the deadline I called headquarters and asked for a ballot. I was told I was ineligible as my membership was not valid on 6/14/2007, the date they said was when they sent their membership list to the CPA firm.

I figured they got me there, as I knew there was a small lapse of membership this year. I did renew it two days prior to the summer blast in July, so it was a short lapse.

Thing is, tonight I dug out my copies of front sight, and right on the label was my membership expiration date, 30 June, 2007.

So I was in fact a member in good standing on 6/14/2007.

So I don't know WTF happened in Sedro Wooley, but they were culling members from the list of eligible voters they should not have. Be that mistake, oversight, or what have you- but something happened.

I have no way of knowing who you talked to at Sedro, or what they said, but... none of them have the power to over-rule the USPSA bylaws.

What those bylaws say is :

6.5 Election by Ballot:

The Executive Director shall create a list of eligible voters in accordance with Article 6.3 on the first business day of July in the year of the election. The Board of Directors shall cause ballots for each contested election, to be printed and delivered to a certified public accounting firm selected by the Executive Director at the direction of the Board by July 15th of each election year.

So... if your membership expired on 6/30/07, *that* is why you didn't get a ballot. You weren't an "eligible voter" on July 1st. There are no "June" dates anywhere in the bylaws, with regard to eligibility for voting.

Sucks, I know. But... it sorta isn't Sedro's fault. They're doing what the bylaws require them to do. And the bylaws are there to ensure that the election is as fair, transparent and impartial as possible. They don't "cull voters from the list".... they simply make a list of eligible voters, in accordance with the bylaws.

bruce

Also need the following section of the bylaws

6.3 Eligibility to Vote:

Eligibility to vote requires a current USPSA membership with an original membership date prior to May 1 of the year of the election.

Alan

That being the case... I was not eligible.

[blsexton]

PM to rob re: not my name on 'new' ballot.

[murkish]

I also never received either ballot. Maybe they could make a ballot available for download somehow with a way to authenticate the ballot. Obviously, member number is not sufficient given the use of both name and member number on score sheets.