1911 Disconnector -> Feeding Issues?

[ledavatar]

I detail stripped my Kimber Eclipse Custom II the other day and polished up the trigger/trigger bow as well as some slide-to-frame contacts with 600grit sandpaper. When I put the gun back together, the slide was behaving erratically. I would rack the slide back, and when I release, it hangs towards the rear and then at first slowly moves forward making a grinding noise and then jumps forward. After some investigation I found out the problem is that the disconnector had too much tension and is dragging on the slide. I don't think I did anything wrong in the reassembly the first time, because otherwise the gun wouldn't function.

So I disassembled the gun again and put it back together and dropped some oil (militec) around the disconnector. After cycling the slide a few times, it's better. However, I still feel the disconnector dragging on the slide a bit when I hand cycle slowly back and forward. I was comparing this against my friend's SVI limited gun, and his slide feels smooth all the back and forward, and you cannot feel any bump from the disconnector. Is this because of a heavier sear spring that is touching the disconnector, and how do I lighten the tension on the disconnector?

I should mention that I'm concerned about this because I "think" the slight slide dragging may be causing some of my round feeding issues. Sometimes when I hand cycle rounds, I would get failure-to-feed issues (nosedives & round feeding half way) if I cycle the slide slowly. I thought it was just my chip mccormicks power 10 mags at first, but my wilson 47Ts started hiccuping after a while too. I got some cobra tripps in the mail and haven't gotten a chance to try them out on the range yet, but I still get FTFs cycling w/ them by hand.

[mike cyrwus]

600 grit sandpaper doesnt "polish" anything; it removes metal. Perhaps its not the disconnector that youre feeling when you hand cycle it, its the slightly uneven surface from hittting the rails with sandpaper. Detail strip the frame, lube the rails heavily, throw the slide back on, and work it smooth.

The trigger could be hanging up as well; see if that will slide out of the frame under its own weight and isnt hanging up on the frame someplace.

[ledavatar]

600 grit sandpaper doesnt "polish" anything; it removes metal. Perhaps its not the disconnector that youre feeling when you hand cycle it, its the slightly uneven surface from hittting the rails with sandpaper. Detail strip the frame, lube the rails heavily, throw the slide back on, and work it smooth.

The trigger could be hanging up as well; see if that will slide out of the frame under its own weight and isnt hanging up on the frame someplace.

Interesting… well 600grit was the highest grit home depot had, so that's what I got. I thought it did a fine job of smoothing things out (a lot better than before). However, you may be right, some grit or removed material may be contributing to the slowdown.

The trigger does drop out on its own weight and has always done so.

I do think the disconnector has a lot to do w/ it though, since the slide only hands up towards the back portion (and jumps forward when it clears there). The "bump" I feel is the result of the disconnector.

[Mo Hepworth]

600 grit sandpaper doesnt "polish" anything; it removes metal. Perhaps its not the disconnector that youre feeling when you hand cycle it, its the slightly uneven surface from hittting the rails with sandpaper. Detail strip the frame, lube the rails heavily, throw the slide back on, and work it smooth.

The trigger could be hanging up as well; see if that will slide out of the frame under its own weight and isnt hanging up on the frame someplace.

Interesting… well 600grit was the highest grit home depot had, so that's what I got. I thought it did a fine job of smoothing things out (a lot better than before). However, you may be right, some grit or removed material may be contributing to the slowdown.

The trigger does drop out on its own weight and has always done so.

I do think the disconnector has a lot to do w/ it though, since the slide only hands up towards the back portion (and jumps forward when it clears there). The "bump" I feel is the result of the disconnector.

Automotive/ Paint shops have 1000grit- 1600grit 2000grit,...etc..FYI

[03k64]

Automotive/ Paint shops have 1000grit- 1600grit 2000grit,...etc..FYI

I was going to suggest a hobby shop for sandpaper and some jewelers rouge.

[bulm540]

I detail stripped my Kimber Eclipse Custom II the other day and polished up the trigger/trigger bow as well as some slide-to-frame contacts with 600grit sandpaper. When I put the gun back together, the slide was behaving erratically. I would rack the slide back, and when I release, it hangs towards the rear and then at first slowly moves forward making a grinding noise and then jumps forward. After some investigation I found out the problem is that the disconnector had too much tension and is dragging on the slide. I don't think I did anything wrong in the reassembly the first time, because otherwise the gun wouldn't function.

So I disassembled the gun again and put it back together and dropped some oil (militec) around the disconnector. After cycling the slide a few times, it's better. However, I still feel the disconnector dragging on the slide a bit when I hand cycle slowly back and forward. I was comparing this against my friend's SVI limited gun, and his slide feels smooth all the back and forward, and you cannot feel any bump from the disconnector. Is this because of a heavier sear spring that is touching the disconnector, and how do I lighten the tension on the disconnector?

I should mention that I'm concerned about this because I "think" the slight slide dragging may be causing some of my round feeding issues. Sometimes when I hand cycle rounds, I would get failure-to-feed issues (nosedives & round feeding half way) if I cycle the slide slowly. I thought it was just my chip mccormicks power 10 mags at first, but my wilson 47Ts started hiccuping after a while too. I got some cobra tripps in the mail and haven't gotten a chance to try them out on the range yet, but I still get FTFs cycling w/ them by hand.

Is the gun pretty new?

[G-ManBart]

600 grit sandpaper doesnt "polish" anything; it removes metal. Perhaps its not the disconnector that youre feeling when you hand cycle it, its the slightly uneven surface from hittting the rails with sandpaper. Detail strip the frame, lube the rails heavily, throw the slide back on, and work it smooth.

The trigger could be hanging up as well; see if that will slide out of the frame under its own weight and isnt hanging up on the frame someplace.

Interesting… well 600grit was the highest grit home depot had, so that's what I got. I thought it did a fine job of smoothing things out (a lot better than before). However, you may be right, some grit or removed material may be contributing to the slowdown.

The trigger does drop out on its own weight and has always done so.

I do think the disconnector has a lot to do w/ it though, since the slide only hands up towards the back portion (and jumps forward when it clears there). The "bump" I feel is the result of the disconnector.

To be honest, it sounds like it would be best if you took/sent it to a gunsmith and had them take a look. Trying to "smooth" slide rails with sandpaper is going to be counter-productive....you can either shoot it smooth (works wonders) or get lapping compound. Lowering the disconnector tension might turn your Kimber into a full-auto if you're not familiar with the process. It could be that it's relationship of the shape of the disconector and the firing pin stop you're feeling rather than the spring tension on it that you're feeling....they might need to be reshaped or smoothed up a bit, but it's best handled by a smith.

Edited October 2, 2007 by G-ManBart

[ledavatar]

The gun is not new, it has maybe 4k thru it. I don't remember if the gun was like this when I first got it (3yrs ago), since I was pretty new to shooting at the time, however, it definitely didn't have the slide stick issue. I don't want to lighten the disconnector if it has the potential to make my gun go full-auto, but rather "fix it" to original specs so that the problem doesn't occur.

In any case, do you guys have problems w/ feeding (on 10round single stack mags) if you're slow-cycling the slide?

Edited October 2, 2007 by ledavatar

[JThompson]

The gun is not new, it has maybe 4k thru it. I don't remember if the gun was like this when I first got it (3yrs ago), since I was pretty new to shooting at the time, however, it definitely didn't have the slide stick issue. I don't want to lighten the disconnector if it has the potential to make my gun go full-auto, but rather "fix it" to original specs so that the problem doesn't occur.

In any case, do you guys have problems w/ feeding (on 10round single stack mags) if you're slow-cycling the slide?

Is this reloaded ammo or factory? I aks because I had some loaded long and had the same issue with my Kimber Super Match.

The slide to frame issue... well, let's just say that's a job for someone with a certain skill set.

Edited October 2, 2007 by JThompson

[ledavatar]

The gun is not new, it has maybe 4k thru it. I don't remember if the gun was like this when I first got it (3yrs ago), since I was pretty new to shooting at the time, however, it definitely didn't have the slide stick issue. I don't want to lighten the disconnector if it has the potential to make my gun go full-auto, but rather "fix it" to original specs so that the problem doesn't occur.

In any case, do you guys have problems w/ feeding (on 10round single stack mags) if you're slow-cycling the slide?

Is this reloaded ammo or factory? I aks because I had some loaded long and had the same issue with my Kimber Super Match.

Reloaded of course, I do load on the long side - 1.25 COAL. My LEE book says 1.178 is shortest, but the round looks dangerously short at that length. What length would you recommend?

My load is 200gr Rainiers over 5.0gr Bullseye.

Edited October 2, 2007 by ledavatar

[wide45]

In any case, do you guys have problems w/ feeding (on 10round single stack mags) if you're slow-cycling the slide?

Don't slow cycle it. Pull it back and let go.

If you are having problems, I'd recommend taking it to a good smith.

[mike cyrwus]

In any case, do you guys have problems w/ feeding (on 10round single stack mags) if you're slow-cycling the slide?

Don't slow cycle it. Pull it back and let go.

If you are having problems, I'd recommend taking it to a good smith.

+1

[bulm540]

Ditto!!!

[tightloop]

Automotive/ Paint shops have 1000grit- 1600grit 2000grit,...etc..FYI

I was going to suggest a hobby shop for sandpaper and some jewelers rouge.

I am going to suggest leaving it alone and taking it to a qualified gunsmith to fix what he might have screwed up...

[Kingman]

if its a new problem take it to a smith.

normally things don't get rougher over time unless a problem occurs. sandpaper on the rails won't solve it.

[Pat Miles]

If you think the problem is the disconnector then take it out and hand cycle the gun with NO ammunition in the gun. That being said I also would reccomend a trip to a competent gunsmith!

[ima45dv8]

From your description of the sequence of events, it sounds like maybe some of the grit from the sandpaper and/or the metal removed is causing the grinding noises and slowing your slide movement. Detail strip, flush, lube and reassemble. Be sure to clean out the disconnector channel while you're in there.

Like others have already said, I wouldn't get too concerned about what it does when slow- or hand-cycling.

I've had several guns that would fail that test but ran great when actually shooting them.

[GJ047]

I would send it to the factory or a smtih at this point before you start removing any more metal on the slide rails. I can't imagine how there would be enough upward tension on a disconector to cause the slide to slow much unless there is some other type of problem there. Also the gun shouldn't be so tight where the frame and slide need to be lapped. If you mess that up then your looking at a weld up and refit or accurails. Clean and degrease, relube and try again. While doing that look and see if there are any wear marks that are new. In case nobody said it yet, never shorten a disconnector! Sounds like something else is going on to me.

[ledavatar]

Ok, this is my only "major" gun currently and I don't want to send it off to a smith and wait like 2 months, esp. when the problem is sporadic. I think what had happened was a combination of 2 things - leftover grit from sanding/polishing the rails (like ima45dv8 said), and no oil on the disconnector. When I detail stripped everything I took the chance to clean all the parts and didn't really oil anything when I put it back together. After I wiped everything down and put some oil on the contact parts (plus small drop down the disconnector hole), it doesn't seem to be sticking at all now. I just shot about 150 rounds at the range today, it was fine.

Whew.

[ledavatar]

Funny thing happened the other day… the problem came back. Darn it. Darn it to heck. I took the slide off to clean the gun, and when I put it back together, the first thing I checked was the slide action, and sure enough it was sticking. I took the slide off and put it back. Same thing. I diassembled frame completely and put it back, lightly oiling the parts, and the problem got WORSE! The slide sticking was so bad that it would not go into battery now w/o me pushing lightly forward on the slide. Hrmm… so I diassembled it yet again, and the slide became so bad I have to forceably push the slide into battery after racking it back. I was afraid it wouldn't close!

So what did I do? I diassembled it again to check for burrs, etc., and this time, when I put it back, something was wrong. The hammer would not drop. Turns out the the sear spring base hook popped loose off the frame, and when I was pounding the mainspring housing in, I flattened the hook and broke it off.

After muttering some obscenities, I ordered some disconnectors and springs (recoil, main, sear) from Midway. I'll see what happens.

I now think the problem is that the middle leaf of the sear spring was out of tune and pushing too hard on the disconnector, causing excessive drag on the slide. (When I put the empty slide on the empty frame, it goes back and forth smoothly.)

[Bear23]

I had a gun with an oversized slide stop that felt that way. Once i turned it down, the problem went away.

[Powder Finger]

It sounds like the middle leaf has no bevel on it.

The bevel at the tip lets the disconnect slide down smoothly.

[ledavatar]

It sounds like the middle leaf has no bevel on it.

The bevel at the tip lets the disconnect slide down smoothly.

Well, I'm pretty sure there's a bevel in it, or the pistol wouldn't have worked the first 5000 rounds. But do sear springs ever get out of tune in terms of tension?

[ledavatar]

Ok, just to update everyone on my problem, if anyone cares.

I tried pretty much everything, examined every part, felt all the contacts, and still nothing. I installed a new sear spring (Ed Brown) after my old one broke. Funny thing w/ new sear springs - they don't have bevels in the middle leaf. No worries, it still works, and that turned out not to be the main problem, so I just let it be for now.

I think I finally figured out the problem. It's the stupidest thing... I feel like a complete moron for sayiing this, but the problem was because my guide rod and barrel were grinding against the guide rod plug and bushing, respectively... because I didn't oil them. After detail stripping everything I just hate to put back dirty things so I wiped everything thing and I thought I oiled everything... and I was so sure it was the disconnector that I had tunnel vision and solely focused on that.

After some oil, the slide is like butter. For now.

I'm sure the problem will come back in another form. I just hope I get through the match this sunday. Already missed one last week.

[AlamoShooter]

Good > But How did you clean the parts and frame after you "polished" the parts with 600? Did you use a rag and spray oil? Or did you all so use compressed air? IF you just used a rag and or spray oil you probably ended up with the sanding grit washed into the frame and near unreachable areas.

The last check I do is with a "Clean White" cloth to see if it picks up ANY gray particles. = that would be cut off metal or the sand grit off the paper.

There is a chance that in you oiling and reassembly that you just washed the offending particles out of the way for the time being. and at the worst time they will jump out to grind on your gun in not nice ways.