Critique My Open Gun Design!

[ledavatar]

First of all hello to everyone, I’ve been a long time lurker here trying to learn as much as I can, and have found this forum invaluable in answering beginner’s questions.

I’m ordering an open gun from SVI, and I’m having trouble deciding on the finish since I have heard a lot of conflicting opinions. A lot of people seem to get hard chrome on carbon steel to get that hardness. I wanted that option, but it wasn’t available from SVI, as they don’t like hard chroming and will void my warranty if I choose it. There’s also no other way of getting the stainless color with carbon steel frame/slides.

I can 1) get the carbon steel but choose a black finish, like the “blued finish” or the infinicoat “gun metal light.” Does anyone know how the infinicoat compares to hard chrome? I really like the polished slick finish of hard chrome, which I feel is easier to clean and the hardness makes it difficult to scratch up, so I want to pick something that is similar. I think the blued finish is the

2) I can get stainless steel and just choose the stainless finish.

What are you guys’ opinions on carbon steel vs. stainless steel frame/slide combinations, hard chrome, infinicoat, and stainless/blued finishes?

I also included a list of my options for critiques! Any suggestions would be helpful to me!!! Thanks in advance.

Template Name: IMM Open Pistol - Wide Body

Last Updated: 09/18/07

Quantity: 1

AET Barrel Option: AET

Barrel: 3 10 degree Rearward Hybrid Holes

Barrel Length: 5

Barrel Style: Non-Bushing Style (Cone/Bull Barrel)

Caliber: 38 Super Comp

California/ Massachusetts Resident: No

Compensator: IMM Open Titanium Compensator

Dust Cover: Standard, w/Carbon Fiber Mount Installed (C, G, L)

Dust Cover Fluting: None

Frame Material: Carbon Steel

Frame Style: Competition (Polymer wide body)

Front Sight: None

Front Slide Cut: None

Grip : Standard, Right Handed (Competition frame only)

Grip Safety: Steel

Grip Surface / Finish: Scotts Grip (Competition and Compact)

Guide Rod: Tungsten

Gun type: IMM Modified (4.5 inch)

Hammer: Square

Hammer Finish: Tool Steel

IPSC Modified Division Infinity IMM Special®: Yes (to select IPSC Modified Division IMM Special)

ITI Rail cut: No Rail Cut

Mag Well: No Magazine Well

Magazine Catch: Steel, 4-40 tap

Magazine Release Button: Small Blued Stainless-This option requires 4-40 magcatch.

Mainspring Housing: CS Flat

Panel Cut: Yes

Pistol Finish: Infinicoat Gun Metal Light

Radial Flute: None

Rear Lightening: No

Rear Sight: None

Rear Slide Cut: 20 lines per inch sawtooth

Scope: Cmore Scope Slide Ride Click Switch

Slide Lock Pin: Steel - 4140

Slide Material: Carbon Steel

Slide Profile: Three Sided

Slide Racker / Lightening: Original Racker/Lightening

Stirrup Cut: Yes

Strut: Titanium

Thumb Safety: Carbon Steel

Thumb Safety Style: Ambidextrous Wide

Top Rib: 40 lines per inch

Trigger Base color: Silver

Trigger Bow: Titanium

Trigger Insert Color: Silver

Trigger Insert Style: Curved Short

Triglide System: Yes

[ogiebb]

Carbon Steel and Hardchrome...for the rest its personal opinion and preferences

[GentlemanJim]

Sounds Like a DREAM gun as it is

Welcome to the forum!

Jim

[XRe]

My understanding is that the Infinicoat finish is a PVD type of thing, similar to Ionbond. My personal thinking, at this point, is that those finishes are pretty damn slick. I don't know if the "gun metal light" color will give you a chrome look - I don't know that I've seen one finished like that (call SV and ask them...).

AFAIK, they won't support chroming due to concerns over hydrogen embrittlement, which can cause otherwise sturdy pieces to crack. Its a result of improperly applied chrome, and avoiding it takes significant care on the part of the chromer. It can be done correctly, and is indeed a sturdy finish if applied properly. The problem is that not every shop that does chrome will apply the finish properly to avoid hydrogen embrittlement - so, once the finish goes on, SV no longer has control over whether the part cracks or not.... so they don't warranty it...

I plan on having my current race gun - which is blued, right now - sent off to Ionbond at some point....

[G-ManBart]

If the Infinicoat is anything like Ionbond, it should be pretty darned tough and very slick. My Open gun has the two-tone Ionbond and I may get my Limited gun done if/when I get the slide lightened. By accident I moved my Open gun across my workbench last night and it rubbed along a coarse file I didn't see...not a mark.

I'd ask Infinity how it compares with Ionbond (if they're familiar with it) as more than one company out there use similar a simlar process.

[L9X25]

I have Infinicoat on a several year old, well used, Open gun. It is a silver finish but is NOT bright like hard chrome. IMO it is very attractive without the flashy look of chrome. It does not show wear and will be my preference for all future guns. I have no way to compare it to Ion Bond since I do not have a pistol coated with that product.

I personally prefer the wear characteristics of carbon steel slide and frame to those of stainless and would stick with carbon.

Edited September 18, 2007 by L9X25

[uscbigdawg]

Hard chrome or IonBond. That's it for me. I'm sending both Open guns and my new steel gun to them. My limited is chromed.

Rich

[DogmaDog]

Hmmm. Only thing I see is you picked a 5" barrel, and specified the IMM (4.5" barrel) gun. Which is it?

[L9X25]

Hmmm. Only thing I see is you picked a 5" barrel, and specified the IMM (4.5" barrel) gun. Which is it?

The bull barrel had to be .5" longer than the slide to allow for the attachment of the comp. Should be good to go as it is.

[Chris Keen]

I wouldn't be happy with anything but hardchrome.

[Flexmoney]

IPSC Modified Division Infinity IMM Special®: Yes (to select IPSC Modified Division IMM Special)

Is this an USPSA Open Division gun or a gun for IPSC Modified Division ???

No magwell ?

You don't need 40lpi on the top unless you think that is cool. If so, then go for it.

I don't know that I am sold on that carbon fiber mount. Try a search (or a new thread if you don't find anything) on that alone and see what feedback you get.

What are you guys’ opinions on carbon steel vs. stainless steel frame/slide combinations, hard chrome, infinicoat, and stainless/blued finishes?

Opinions? I got opinions...

- Stainless sucks.

- Don't hard chrome anything until you've shot 10k rounds through it. If you decide to change something, you will likely have to have the gun chromed all over again.

- Don't do anything to void a warranty on a multi-thousand $ gun.

[Gwhiz]

Get rid of the Tungsten guide rod. It is going to break, and at the worst time. I would add a magwell. Sounds like a nice gun, I hope you enjoy it.

[ledavatar]

Wow, thanks for all the replies.

1) Magwell – I intend to install a Dawson ICE magwell, as the stock one looks too small.

2) Tungsten guiderod – Brandon Strayer said having a little bit of weight near the muzzle serves to lessen dot movement. Is tungsten that brittle as to break during a match?

3) I was wondering about the USPSA Open division vs. IPSC modified division as well. There was an option to select either “IMM Open Pistol - Wide Body” or “IMM for IPSC Modified Division - Wide Body,” and I selected the first one. Both of them have the unchangeable line “IPSC Modified Division Infinity IMM Special®: Yes (to select IPSC Modified Division IMM Special)” in the gunbuilder. The one I selected should be the normal USPSA Open pistol. But good point, I will ask to check.

XRe, how do you like the standard blued finish? I was afraid of its low scratch resistance properties. I mean, I compare the clearly visible scratch on my previously beautifully blued baby browning vs. the tenifer finish on my glock… and I just know I gotta have scratch resistence.

[uscbigdawg]

It's a hammer. If you don't have scratches, wear marks, Pro grip stains on the grip, etc. then you aren't handling it enough.

Rich

[03k64]

It's a hammer. If you don't have scratches, wear marks, Pro grip stains on the grip, etc. then you aren't handling it enough.

Rich

I'm with Rich. The wear marks add character.

[XRe]

2) Tungsten guiderod – Brandon Strayer said having a little bit of weight near the muzzle serves to lessen dot movement. Is tungsten that brittle as to break during a match?

I have no direct experience w/ SV's version of a tungsten guiderod, so I don't know if this applies to theirs or not. Tungsten itself is somewhat brittle, and some folks have had problems with the guiderods breaking near the head of the rod. It seems to be more prevalent the lighter you go in recoil spring weights, as well.

There's a lot of factors that determine dot movement - and every gun is a "system". Different systems want different modifications to get a given result - so, in the case of the IMM guns, perhaps putting some weight up front is the best way to lower muzzle flip. In general, the smith who designs and builds a system is the best one to know how to treat it that way...

However - if something is going to break, count on it breaking during a match. That's just Murphy's Law

XRe, how do you like the standard blued finish? I was afraid of its low scratch resistance properties. I mean, I compare the clearly visible scratch on my previously beautifully blued baby browning vs. the tenifer finish on my glock… and I just know I gotta have scratch resistence.

Well, your Glock has a black phosphate coating, actually. The Tenifer is colorless... don't know if you know that or not. The phosphate finish is applied over the top....

I like blued finishes. I think they tend to have a depth and beauty that other finishes lack. I also feel they have more character than chrome. You gain some corrosion resistance over bare steel, as well. But, the benefits of bluing aren't necessarily in line for what you want in a competition or hard-use tool. It doesn't do anything to reduce wear on the gun, it doesn't provide lubricity on its own, it doesn't stand up to simple scratches, etc. Hard chrome provides a lot of wear and corrosion protection, but only minimal protection against scratching (its pretty easy to scratch chrome - not as easy as bare metal, but not far off). The PVD finishes seem to be damn tough, as you can see through searching this site... I've heard some concerns around application of the PVD finish - especially in terms of cosmetics (ie, uneven looking finish, etc) - but those concerns seem to be waning as several providers seem to have figured out how to do firearms properly. Time will tell better, of course, but.... I think the black PVDs (the so-called Diamond Like Coating, or DLC, finish) looks awesome, if not as cool as a deep hot blue

[Sgtsvi]

All of my SV's except the single stack are stainless. If you get scratches just break out a scotch brite pad and some 3 in 1 oil and it will come right out. The SS guns are easy to keep clean and are more resistant to weather like we just had at the Nationals last week. I use to have Dawson ICE magwells on my guns also but they crowd my hand on the grip. The factory magwell is not that hard to hit with a little practice. PM me if you have any questions about ordering your SV and I will help you through the process.

Dave

[Jaxshooter]

I have 6 SV guns and all are stainless. None of the guns show any kind of wear or galling. When they started making stainless guns originally there was a problem with galling from the guns not being lubed with the proper lubricant. I think this is a thing of the past.

If I have another gun built by SV it will be stainless also. Very easy to maintain and touch up scratches as mentioned above.

[chad GUNder]

My opinion is also loose the tungsten guide rod.

I agree with the front end weight, especially in your shorty, therefore I would recommend loosing the titanium comp and going with steel in place of the tungsten rod.

Is your mainspring housing a steel ZM type or stock plastic? If you're choosing an aluminum magwell you probably want a little weight in the back end for when the mag starts to get near empty.

As for coating... I'm a tephlon believer all the way. But again... no coatings recommended until [b]at least [/b]the 10,000 mark.

[03k64]

no coatings recommended until [b]at least [/b]the 10,000 mark.

I brought this up with a well respected gunsmith on this site and his response was "only if you don't build the gun right" or something along those lines.

[Jaxshooter]

I have heard the same from a couple of very respected gunsmiths that are on this forum.

[ledavatar]

Interesting stuff.

Here's another question. In the picture below, I see that the compensator looks pressed onto the barrel - is that right? Also, the top of the hybrid barrel rib is the same color as the compensator and the barrel below is gold. My question is, where does the barrel end and the compensator begin? It looks like it's all one piece. I specified that I want the entire barrel gold, including the barrel rib, so I don't know how that will look in relationship to the compensator (as in, where does the gold color end?).

[chuckbradley]

no coatings recommended until [b]at least [/b]the 10,000 mark.

I brought this up with a well respected gunsmith on this site and his response was "only if you don't build the gun right" or something along those lines.

Depends on what coating. If you build a tight gun and hardchrome immediately it will be so tight it wont cycle until you break it in. In my opinion breaking it in on the hardchrome ruins the advantage from hardchroming in the first place. Hardchrome adds material and changes tolerances. So if that gunsmith builds a loose gun to accomodate hardchrome then you would be ok but after it breaks in the gun will be looser than if you broke it in first then hardchromed it.

[Flexmoney]

no coatings recommended until [b]at least [/b]the 10,000 mark.

I brought this up with a well respected gunsmith on this site and his response was "only if you don't build the gun right" or something along those lines.

For who ?!?!

The gunsmith?

Unless you've been shooting some Open gun for a while...you really aren't going to know exactly what you want. Six months into it, you might decide that the scope mount doesn't suit you, for instance.

I am with Chad. I've seen many a post on this here forum with shooters that wanted to change something on their gun but were kinda stuck because of the hard-chrome.

[38supPat]

Interesting stuff.

Here's another question. In the picture below, I see that the compensator looks pressed onto the barrel - is that right? Also, the top of the hybrid barrel rib is the same color as the compensator and the barrel below is gold. My question is, where does the barrel end and the compensator begin? It looks like it's all one piece. I specified that I want the entire barrel gold, including the barrel rib, so I don't know how that will look in relationship to the compensator (as in, where does the gold color end?).

The comp in nitogen shrunk onto the barrel. The gun in the picture is the origional IMM port design. This is the exact one I have except mine is blued. The comp blends so well to the barrel it's hard to tell where one begins and the other ends, but if you look at the pic, just follow the back edge of the comp up and over onto the barrel, it's a straight line the second last chamber of the barrel has the edge of the comp running throught it, and the last barrel chamber is actually in the comp...this design might be a bit different now.

For the record, mine has shot flawlessly. The scope mount (carbon fiber ) is fine. I would add weight to the front. n close targets the gun is awesome, but I do find that for longer targets I'd like the muzzle damped a little, same goes for SH/WH shooting.