Re-chamber 9x19 to 38 sc

[pmd]

I like the concept of using 9mm brass as it's pretty cheap - but for me it's a lot of work...culling brass into headstamp lots, roll sizing, case gauge, etc.

I think I'd rather be shooting than prepping brass.

My 9mm major open guns are great when they are running 100% - the problem is they don't always run 100%.

It gets frustrating when this happens, especially in a match - one jamb and you are out of the running..

So now I am debating if I should rechamber my 9mm (STI/SVI) Shorty Open pistols to 38 super or 38 super comp /38TJ.

At this point I am looking for reliability - I've decided that picking up brass and/or spending a little more monies on brass is worth it if a gun runs 100%.

Have any of you folks converted 9mm to 38sc by re chambering your 9x19 barrel and tuning your extractor?

What do you think?

[XRe]

Highly suggest a search - we've discussed this several times. Inevitably, you'll be told that you can do it, but it'll result in slightly lower brass lifetime as compared to a regular super barrel (due to working the cases more at the base), and then we'll have a fun little flame war about how your Open Gun isn't built by a smith that knows how to make 9mm run, then....

[pmd]

and then we'll have a fun little flame war about how your Open Gun isn't built by a smith that knows how to make 9mm run, then....

The smith who built the gun is great (Hi Dan!) - the guns usually run really well - the problem only happens once every now and again - the gun might run flawless for 1,000 or 2,000 rounds and then a jamb or two (which is too many IMHO) - I feel the problem is with the 9mm brass.

[shred]

9x23 is the caliber of choice when rechambering 9x19's.

[XRe]

the gun might run flawless for 1,000 or 2,000 rounds and then a jamb or two (which is too many IMHO)

Then it doesn't really run "great" or "flawless", does it?

My Supercomp based gun has only jammed when I've played with magazine tuning, and then only with one particular mag which can't seem to be tuned into submission - I no longer use it. Otherwise, in 17K rounds, I've had no malfunctions.

9mm seems to be sensitive to several things that have to be gotten within tolerances - magazines and their setup are huge factors, ammo OAL, your actual load, etc. The actual malfunction you're having might lend a clue... .38 Super(comp) demands those things be correct, as well, but the tolerances seem to be somewhat wider before you encounter an issue.

If you're having to go through that much trouble to get usable brass, you have to ask yourself how much your time is worth per hour - and is that equal to the difference in brass costs or not, realizing that you're going to be shagging brass when shooting Super(comp) to make it worth the money...

[Radical Precision Designs]

I like the concept of using 9mm brass as it's pretty cheap - but for me it's a lot of work...culling brass into headstamp lots, roll sizing, case gauge, etc.

I think I'd rather be shooting than prepping brass.

My 9mm major open guns are great when they are running 100% - the problem is they don't always run 100%.

It gets frustrating when this happens, especially in a match - one jamb and you are out of the running..

So now I am debating if I should rechamber my 9mm (STI/SVI) Shorty Open pistols to 38 super or 38 super comp /38TJ.

At this point I am looking for reliability - I've decided that picking up brass and/or spending a little more monies on brass is worth it if a gun runs 100%.

Have any of you folks converted 9mm to 38sc by re chambering your 9x19 barrel and tuning your extractor?

What do you think?

Can you identify the "jam" you are experiencing for us, and how are you correcting it from happening again???

It is possible you may experience a similar situation in your conversion, should that situation not be resolved, in which case ... ????

While "finicky" is a description reserved for many Open guns, it does not mean "incapacitating", once it is resolved (usually!).

As for malfunctions in general, where normally reliable open guns puke, it is very common that the cause was something mundane like: not enough powder in a specific round that slipped through, or (my favorite) too much crap/burnt powder in the extractor tunnel, etc. ... Things that could and should not happen if a little bit more "TLC" was dispensed in the maintenance (or is it "lack of") in guns that are known to run flawlessly for thousands or rounds without "any maintenance" (???)

It amazes me when I see a gun run flawlessly for a long time at the matches with fellow shooters, and suddenly craps out ... then they turn to me for help... After a quick visit to the "safe area" usually the PROBLEM was solved with a drop of oil or running a "bore-snake" through the chamber and a small brush in the extractor/breechface.

The same complaints I see out at the matches seem to apply to all calibers. How come?????

[PaulW]

One of the biggest problems is the variation in 9mm brass. The key reason why I switched from 9mm back to 38 super. Plus controling that 9mm case is a bitch, I don't care who you are or how good of smith you are. With super it SO much more consistant.

[pmd]

Have any of you folks converted 9mm to 38sc by re chambering your 9x19 barrel and tuning your extractor?

What do you think?

My question was/is about experiences from others who have rechambered from 9x19 to 38super/38super comp/38TJ

I am very confident that when my 9major gun pukes it is ammo/ brass related.

For example - at yesterday's match I used my practice brass which is nickle FC w/about 4-5 reloads thru it. I knew going into the match that there was a remote possibilty that the ammo would screw me - I decided at the last minute to go to the match and to use the "practice" ammo since I did not have enough match ammo loaded. Note that the only difference with my practice loads and my match loads is that I use 1x fired brass for matches. Sure enough - the pistol jambed a couple times.

With that said - I have pretty much decided (not 100%..) that I don't want to be bothered worrying about 9mm brass quality.

I would rather spend more monies on brass and worry about shooting.

Thanks for your replies..

Edited August 6, 2007 by pmd

[ipscbob]

Come to the darkside! If you are gonna switch your emphasis from Cost to Reliability why not go the whole way and switch to supercomp. It IS the better choice for reliable function.

[Radical Precision Designs]

One of the biggest problems is the variation in 9mm brass. The key reason why I switched from 9mm back to 38 super. Plus controling that 9mm case is a bitch, I don't care who you are or how good of smith you are. With super it SO much more consistant.

Whoooah, Paul !

You know very well that I shoot a 9mm Major. But that is because I really like it myself, in spite of the "loading" hassles.

I have re-chambered a few barrels to .38 Super/Comp from customers who decided to switch. I have also rebarrelled a few from customers that wanted to go the 9mm Major way from .38 Super/Comp. My FIRST recommendation when asked by someone IS .38 Super/Comp rather than 9mm Major. For many reasons. The truth is that once you get a 9mm Major or a .38 Super/Comp running flawlessly with a specific ammo combination, you may experience some "hiccups" when and if you deviate from it. I guess that is what they mean by "finicky".

As for "PMD's" dilemma ... that is something that will require some soul searching and some "moolah $". The easiest way is to just ream it in to .38 Super/Comp and keep on going. I have not seen (so far) any ill effects from it, or any blown cases, and by the time any stress would show in the case base (if any) that case is usually "lost brass" during a match. You could always (moolah$) spend some and have a complete replacement barrell/comp made in .38 Super/Comp and keep both calibers. Kind of like two guns in one.

At least with a gun that has been known to run flawlessly, you could expect to continue doing the same after the conversion.

[uscbigdawg]

Highly suggest a search...

Amen to that.

...and then we'll have a fun little flame war about how your Open Gun isn't built by a smith that knows how to make 9mm run, then....

Speaking for Dave...I love Rusty Kidd. Everything that man touches runs for thousands of rounds before I 'want' to clean it.

Rich

[Flatland Shooter]

If you convert to 38 SC, you will need to buy some new brass.

But first, as an experiment, buy some brand new 9mm brass and see what problems, if any, you have. If the problem is with the brass, fix the brass, not the gun.

Bill

[lcs]

I have been shooting 9 Major for 6 or 7 months now (about 7K down the pipe). My gun was the first 9 Major my smith built. My builder is a an OPEN GM with a lot of experience. The only problem the gun had was doubling once in a while. My smith corrected that and off I went.

I have bought mixed headstamp brass from several sources and I now prefer to get same headstamp oncefired from the same person. I never pick up brass and would not reload any brass I have fired for OPEN anyway (9MM brass that is). I can say my only jams have been from a DIRTY gun. HS6 after 200 rounds would leave a gummy residue on the feed ramp causing an occasional jam. I switched powder and the gun runs great. BTW-I now clean my gun after EVERY match no matter how many rounds I shoot.

I think you got some great advise from the other guys. You might just be experiencing a minor malfunction and jumping to 38 would seem a little fast at this point. Hell, I've seen 38S/SC guns that don't run 2k without some kind of puking. OPEN guns are like some women--high maintenance!

[Fireant]

Hey, PMD I have a 38 SC if you want to do some trading

[bgary]

I can say my only jams have been from a DIRTY gun.

+1

I've been using once-fired 9mm brass (some of which looks like it has been fired more than once). I don't do anything special in the way of inspection - I normally check headstamps after I clean brass. I'm always amazed at how many 9x21, 9SC and 380 cases find their way into the bin, and I'd rather catch them *then*, than when I'm reloading or shooting.

My JPL Major-9 (www.jplprecision.com) runs and runs and runs. Have never had a gun or ammo-related problem. I have had a couple of mag-related problems, but those were solved by switching to SV tubes and Grams 9mm guts with steel spacers. I use Silhouette, and while it does get pretty dirty, it's nothing like HS-6 <vbg>

Just as a datapoint, I'm doing the *opposite* from you, right now. JPL is rebarelling my other open gun (shorty, in SuperComp) to 9-major, because I like the 9 so much.

ymmv

Bruce

[rwmagnus]

Have any of you folks converted 9mm to 38sc by re chambering your 9x19 barrel and tuning your extractor?

What do you think?

My question was/is about experiences from others who have rechambered from 9x19 to 38super/38super comp/38TJ

I am very confident that when my 9major gun pukes it is ammo/ brass related.

For example - at yesterday's match I used my practice brass which is nickle FC w/about 4-5 reloads thru it. I knew going into the match that there was a remote possibilty that the ammo would screw me - I decided at the last minute to go to the match and to use the "practice" ammo since I did not have enough match ammo loaded. Note that the only difference with my practice loads and my match loads is that I use 1x fired brass for matches. Sure enough - the pistol jambed a couple times.

With that said - I have pretty much decided (not 100%..) that I don't want to be bothered worrying about 9mm brass quality.

I would rather spend more monies on brass and worry about shooting.

Thanks for your replies..

I agree with FullRace isolate the problem first. I have had jams before and know where the problem is so it's an easy fix. 4-5X on mixed 9mm brass is healthy. For me I buy 1x fired, shoot it and move on. On occasion I'll shag the empties and run them again but usually I just run 1x shot brass from a reliable seller. This way my loads are the same for practice and match. As far as one caliber or the other is concerened I don't think it matters. The best one is the one you have and the gun you practice with.

[smokshwn]

I will jump on the bandwagon and offer a couple of easy suggestions you may try and see what comes of them before you spend the money. I have a Bedell shorty in 9mm that runs like a (pick any version of the oversexed primate you like). I have 30+k rounds through it and can honestly not think of any malfs that were not easily explained ie high primer, dirty mag, 3k rounds since last cleaning, etc. I run SV mags, with Grams Guts, and Dawson pads, ammo loaded to 1.17. I have used zero, hornady, and MG with equal success.

I buy bulk 9mm brass (brassman, 38superman, and a couple of local guys) clean it if it needs it, and load it up. No sorting by headstamp, counting reloads etc etc. I run a Dillon sizing die, a KISS bulletfeeder, Redding Comp Seating Die, and a Lee FCD.

I know there is a lot of debate about the Lee FCD but here is what I noticed with it. Initially I would get 10-12 rds out of 1000 that would not gravity drop into the case gauge. These rounds would still run but they went into a bin that would get shot at practice. After installing the FCD I will have 1-2 that don't make the case gauge.

What I am trying to get at is if the gun runs well enough and you are sure it is the ammo fix the ammo. A $15 die won't take too much effort to try.

Good luck, Craig

Edited August 6, 2007 by smokshwn

[Alan Meek]

I like the concept of using 9mm brass as it's pretty cheap - but for me it's a lot of work...culling brass into headstamp lots, roll sizing, case gauge, etc.

I think I'd rather be shooting than prepping brass.

My 9mm major open guns are great when they are running 100% - the problem is they don't always run 100%.

It gets frustrating when this happens, especially in a match - one jamb and you are out of the running..

So now I am debating if I should rechamber my 9mm (STI/SVI) Shorty Open pistols to 38 super or 38 super comp /38TJ.

At this point I am looking for reliability - I've decided that picking up brass and/or spending a little more monies on brass is worth it if a gun runs 100%.

Have any of you folks converted 9mm to 38sc by re chambering your 9x19 barrel and tuning your extractor?

What do you think?

A couple of quick questions?

Describe the jam: feeding? extraction? or ejection?

Which Extractor?

Which Ejector? and was it tuned per Brazos instructions?

Thanks

Alan

[jjanglin]

Ive built a lot of 9mm major guns, I allways test with mixed headstamp brass,usually 9mm problems are a clearence thing, 38 super type

brass being heavier will not show the same problem as the 9mm brass will,I dont like the 9mm major guns but mine do work, Ive done a

lot of testing with this caliber , this last gun I did I shot 700 rounds through it cause it had one of the every once in a while failures to eject(you)

, gotta get the slide weight down and mark the ejection port area with black marker to see where the little 9mm brass is scooting out.

gun being dirty is another one of the 9mm quirks keep them clean.

Should try and keep your loads around 170 pf Ive found this is the best ,in order for the slide to work right.

going from 9mm to 38 super/9x23/super comp isnt a problem.

Jim

Sailors Custom

[pmd]

I agree with FullRace isolate the problem first.

I am not looking for why my gun malfunctions occasionally As I stated - I believe I have isolated the problem - I feel it's a brass problem.

I am trying to get feedback from others who have rechambered.

The malfunctions I have had do not happen too often - every 1k - 2k rounds +/- sometimes not for months.

I keep my gun pretty clean and am very anal about reloading. What I feel happens, is a bad pc of 9mm brass slips thru every now and again.

So I feel for me to buy new 9x19 brass or only use once fired brass, I think I'd prefer to go the 38super/ 38sc route.

I have gotton a feedback from a couple guys and it sounds like rechambering is an option that has worked and should be only a small investment.

Looks like I'll start with my back-up pistol and see how it goes.

I'll keep you posted.

[rwmagnus]

pmd

Rechambering isn't a big deal but I can't help thinking it may not be necessary. Sounds like you want 100% reliability (Don't we all). As you indicate the malfunctions you are getting is most likely a brass issue. Simple fix is run better brass. I think the Lee FCD die is great insurance. Rechamber if you want to it's simple to do and the most economical, but if you run better brass your problems should be fixed.