racerba Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Here's what I sent: I would like to express my disappointment to this new policy. Many good people have bought and sold firearms related items on your site. Most have been used for good. I know of law enforcement officers who have bought such items. I know of military people who have benefited from buying firearms related items such as magazines. There are competitive shooters that utilized Ebay to help them buy items cheaply. You let one pathetic psychopath dictate what thousands of law-abiding people cannot do? If not for your site, the VT shootings would still have happened. If not for VT policy, the number of casualties would have been significantly less (but that’s a topic for another discussion). Allow me to make some comparison as to what your policy equates to: - Knives used daily in murders around the world. Should knives not be banned from your site as well? - Baseball bats are also used in murders. I believe all baseball related items should also be banned. Metal cleats can really hurt. - And automobiles kill more people daily than any other tool used by man. Shouldn’t automobile parts be banned as well? Thanks, Here's what I received: Dear Bob, Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin in regard to changes to our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has asked that I review your email and respond on his behalf. Let me start by saying that I understand that this is a very frustrating situation. Like the rest of the nation, eBay was deeply saddened and shocked by the events at Virginia Tech and we felt that it was not only appropriate, but necessary, to revisit our related policies. While nothing purchased on our site was illegal in any way, we felt compelled to ask ourselves some tough questions and ensure we do everything possible to provide a safe and trusted marketplace. We have always valued an open and transparent marketplace; if items are legal to buy and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them on our site. However, there are some items that while legal, may not be safe for our marketplace. In these instances, our applicable policies go beyond the law to ensure that our marketplace is safe. I understand your comparison to knives, baseball bats, and automobiles. However, the main purpose, and use, of those items is different from the purpose of a firearm. We do not allow actual firearms on the site, and after careful consideration our executives and our Trust and Safety team determined that any item required to fire a gun has no place on eBay. All of our policies are under constant review. As the Internet and the way our communities use the Internet evolves, our policies and our marketplace must evolve with it. We determined that this policy change was in the best interest of promoting a safe marketplace for all members. I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for the inconvenience it caused you. Sincerely, Terri Office of the President Here's my reply: Can you please explain how you came to the conclusion that selling firearms related item makes your marketplace "unsafe"? Are the people buying firearms related items the same people who are going out on killing sprees? Are all the firearms related items being used criminally? Can you “ensure” that the market place is safe by this action? Or are you just content to feel you are keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals AND people who need them to defend themselves. And the main purpose of firearms is not for murdering people – it is for the defense of lives. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Isn't Ebay based in San Francisco? I don't think I need to say any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Not that I am fond of Ebay/Paypal and this new policy but lets step back for a second. It is entirely their right to decide what can be traded via their services even if the decide that the only valid merchandise is Garden Gnomes between 7" and 16". It is their business, and as consumers it is our right not to participate. If the tables where turned and a lets say Gunbroker decided that they would not allow auctions for some items we didn't like we would be cheering them on. Yup, we can all decide not to use Ebay, but getting angry and accusing them of affecting your rights is proabably not the right aproach. After all, they only exercised their own rights and that shouldn't be somthing we oppose .... even if they are a bunch of friking bastards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911onr Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Not that I am fond of Ebay/Paypal and this new policy but lets step back for a second. It is entirely their right to decide what can be traded via their services even if the decide that the only valid merchandise is Garden Gnomes between 7" and 16". It is their business, and as consumers it is our right not to participate. It is their right, but they have to answer to the shareholders. Unless there are negative financial consequences of their actions, this is wasted bandwidth. When the buyers and sellers who make ebay profitable vote with their feet, the shareholders may take notice and do something to restore a free market. What really bothers me is their intellectual dishonesty, using cho/VT as a convienient excuse to further their political agenda. I closed my account this morning that had a 100% feedback rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 (edited) eBay has a right to run their business as they see fit and I have a right to do business where I see fit. I expressed in my letter that I find their policy insulting and so I will take my business elsewhere and will encourage everyone I know to do the same. Their new policy isn't an attack on our rights per se, but it is most certainly an extension of an anti-gun board's belief system. I see no legitimate business reason for the decision and it will have a negative impact on their profit and reputation with a lot of us, but in the big picture, probably not as much as we all hope. Finances will take priority over "values", so it'd be sweet to see them suffer with substantial loss of revenues due to a mass exodus of good buyers and sellers, but I won't hold my breath. It's frustrating because this is simply a push of someone's ridiculous anti-gun agenda, pathetically masked as a "Good Samaritan" response to the Virginia Tech shootings. I reminded them in my letter that the 9/11 tragedy was carried with box cutters, not guns, and eBay seems to have no problems continuing to sell those. I'd honestly not have had as much of a problem with the policy if they had just said "we don't like guns, so you can't sell their parts on our site." Fine. But to make this out to be the "right thing to do" in response to a school shooting in an effort to play on the public's emotions and attitudes toward guns to further the political agenda of members of their board - now that, as Penn & Teller would say, is bullshit! Edited August 1, 2007 by AustinMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 "Safe market place" Since their market place is the world I can only regard that statement as eBay saying there is no place in the world for firearms or their components. Since their market is a virtual one, this is the only conclusion one can draw. I also got much the same canned response as the rest of you. JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anopsis Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I understand your comparison to knives, baseball bats, and automobiles. However, the main purpose, and use, of those items is different from the purpose of a firearm. This statement really shows their true colors. What IS the "main purpose, and use" of firearms? * Hunting * Sport shooting * Self defense This falls right in line with the anti-gunners that believe that guns' only purpose is to kill. I own several guns that have never killed anyone. I would imagine most others here have the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 (edited) I understand your comparison to knives, baseball bats, and automobiles. However, the main purpose, and use, of those items is different from the purpose of a firearm. This statement really shows their true colors. What IS the "main purpose, and use" of firearms? * Hunting * Sport shooting * Self defense This falls right in line with the anti-gunners that believe that guns' only purpose is to kill. I own several guns that have never killed anyone. I would imagine most others here have the same. I only hunt paper these days, because I lost the urge to even kill animals. Also, I felt that I had taken enough game for my lifetime and it was time to leave some for the future generations. This is not to say that people shouldn't hunt or that some of the animals numbers need to be reduced. I hunted game birds. One of the core problems it that the press and ignorant people are teaching people, esp children, to equate guns with one thing. They are teaching them to think dead people when they hear the word gun. Then when the talk of banning guns they are really banning dead people. As most of us free thinking gun owners know... there is no way in hell than banning anything ever stops it's use. We already proved this with booze and drugs. All you do is create a huge profit to the criminal who already are in violation of the law. As the younger generation grows to adulthood, and the antigun politico types get stronger, we face more and more restriction. If we don't teach the next generation to equate guns with friendship, safety and defense of life and property, I fear within a few generations, or less, there will be no "2nd." JT Edited August 1, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I sugest we get the word out about Gunbroker.com. It looks an awful lot like ebay, but it has things that go boom. Most of the once fired brass on Gunbroker has a starting price higher than retail for new brass. I'm hoping Ebay decides not to go through with their ridiculous plan. Remember, they're definitely not gun people (i.e. bullet tips), so it should prove difficult for them to police these items. I'd say let's try to weather the storm before we abandon ship. Swede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxtrotuniformlima Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Once all the brass & bullet & gun part sellers move to gunbroker, the marketplace will adjust itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oraysor Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Precision Delta sales once fired brass and bullets, who needs E-bay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Not that I am fond of Ebay/Paypal and this new policy but lets step back for a second. It is entirely their right to decide what can be traded via their services even if the decide that the only valid merchandise is Garden Gnomes between 7" and 16". It is their business, and as consumers it is our right not to participate. If the tables where turned and a lets say Gunbroker decided that they would not allow auctions for some items we didn't like we would be cheering them on. Yup, we can all decide not to use Ebay, but getting angry and accusing them of affecting your rights is proabably not the right aproach. After all, they only exercised their own rights and that shouldn't be somthing we oppose .... even if they are a bunch of friking bastards True enough, but it's about the same ole' liberal sliding scale... ...go ahead browse some of the weirder stuff on ebay. There are auctions on their you hope the FBI never sees you viewed. You could go on for hours about what they SHOULD ban to be fair... It's their business, it just sux that they are that left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Metal Only Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 All right!!!!!!!! The black market will start to appear in the distance, soon it will be here. Gunrunnin' just like the moonshine days. Go ahead, ban it all. You'll still be able to get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 "Go ahead, ban it all. You'll still be able to get what you want." Yes, the persistence of human wants and human needs knows neither limits nor barrier. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 All right!!!!!!!! The black market will start to appear in the distance, soon it will be here. Gunrunnin' just like the moonshine days. Go ahead, ban it all. You'll still be able to get what you want. Careful what you say. You name will be added to the list and then you may have the midnight visit from the jack booted stormtroopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safarihunter Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Ebay is a fact of life. I intensly dislike their past firearms and more recently their new policy but they have decided that banning the other firearms items will only negligeably affect their business. They will go on and we will find another resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 It sucks since that's where I get all my brass and half my bullets. I use e-bay for nothing else. I'm sure the vendors will show up elsewhere, so I doubt it will be a big deal at all. Gunbroker I guess. I need to check that site out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Metal Only Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 All right!!!!!!!! The black market will start to appear in the distance, soon it will be here. Gunrunnin' just like the moonshine days. Go ahead, ban it all. You'll still be able to get what you want. Careful what you say. You name will be added to the list and then you may have the midnight visit from the jack booted stormtroopers. I have no fear of any of the (storm Trooppers), I have not done anything wrong. I'm not the supplier of the black market, but I would support it. I'm sure if they want to bust me, they would find something, but don't worry I wouldn't roll over on ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AH6IP Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Yes it is sad about eBay. However, I understand why they do this. I dont blame them, I blame the lawyers that look for high dollar business that they can sue the pants off, blaming them for someone's death because a gun or a part or ammo was bought through them. It happens all the time around the U.S. involving other businesses. A sad state of affairs for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Even now, GunBroker.com may be chuckling in their beer, knowing that this silliness will benefit THEIR busines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Want to change Ebay? Buy stock! Stockholder get to VOTE and make recomendations to be voted on by the stockholders. If we buy enough stock we could ban plush cat toys if we decided to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxtrotuniformlima Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Got an eMail today from Manny DelaCruz, the owner of Auctionarms. They are offering some incredible incentives to EBay sellers to come to their site. Free auctions for Aug. - no listing fees, no final value fees, keep your EBay feedback rating & Ebay name if avaialable. Wonder if Gunbroker will follow suit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchW Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 how about not-for-profit http://www.AllThatIsGuns.com for any vendors or FFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timamal Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 (edited) No guns stuff buts lots of porn on ebay Which is worse Edited August 4, 2007 by timamal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I own 247gunauctions.com ... haven't used it for anything, maybe nows the time to get something going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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