benelli2 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I don't get in to the percentages as I don't have access to all the figures, what I thought I said and intended to say, was based on personal experiences and general talking to folks, shooters who place well walk away with more money at SC than at South River events, cost of range usage, expenses, RO per deims, whatever they may be, every match has money management challanges, and the bottom line it gets down to the shooter value when its all over. Like I said both have great stages and good folks abound in our sport, so it has to come down to total shooter value and the fun, challange, friends, cost of entering, going, staying, etc and the possible return all get factored in to deciding where to spend the limited time and $ associated with our sport IMHO As brought out by others I think placing Area 6 this close to SC is a poor decision, and as the Area 6 and SC match both must happen, if the range had a conflict and no other date was available then perhaps other ranges could have been persued to host without the schedule conflict, perhaps this happened, and this is the best solution that can be found, and then we must choose which or both, good matches are everywhere so it is getting easier for shooters to find opportunities to go, I like having choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAPEACH Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Hello Everyone, Sorry to say we have had to schedule the Area 6 on the weekend of April 18-20th in 2008. We had no other choice but to move it back to those dates: April 27th (the following weekend) Easter Sunday, May 3-4th(GA State Trap Shoot at SRGC), May 11th - Mother's Day, May 17-26th Cowboy Mule Camp, etc, etc. That being said, our traditional weekend (May 3-4th) is probably going to be the weekend the Single Stack Nationals moves to because of Easter Sunday on their traditional weekend. A lot of hard work goes into putting on all these matches and certainly a 3 day match is more expensive than a one day match. Some of the things the Area 6 does for it's shooters is to include an embroidered polo shirt with entry, a match pin, and to host a shooter's barbeque on Friday and Saturday nights. This is available to each shooter. These things do cut into a budget for the match and if the shooters would rather have them go to the cash payback, that could certainly be done. If the cash payback is all you care about, then certainly you should choose that way. I have just tried to do something that benefited all the shooters that attended the Area 6. Actually, I have to give Charles credit for suggesting the shirt with entry and the match pin. Charles has indeed been a great help with the match in the past few years by not trying to micro manage and by offering suggestions - some of which have been used. I apologize to those of you that will have to choose next year, but it couldn't be avoided. I had no idea my traditional date would be a problem until the middle of May when I tried to set my date for 2008, so if we had held a meeting at the A6, I wouldn't have known, nor did I have any idea back in April when the South Carolina date was set. Cindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racegun9 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 (edited) Its not on the same weekend. Don't you guys like to shoot two weekends in a row. Not exactly sure why you couldn't plan two weekends of shooting in a row. Sorry, read it wrong. They are on the same weekend which makes it much more difficult to shoot both. Edited August 1, 2007 by racegun9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 That would suck if they are one after another. I wanted to compete in both but there is no way if they are a week a part. If you can only pick one, I recommend SC, both have excellent stages and great folks all around, I have friends at both, but SC has typically had a better payout and results have been done faster to get me on the road home. This is what I did this year and intend to do next year As you note, Linda Chico is a GM when it comes to getting out her match results at the conclusion of the match but since they do awards at a banquet about 3 hours after the match is over, actual time from last shot fired until the time the wards begin is quicker at the Area 6. Of course the time passes more quickly at the dinner table in Greenville after you have showered and had a beer than it does waiting under a tent at Area 6. Charles Bond Ah, sorry, but you are wrong here Charles. In 2006, Linda had the finals 20 minutes after the last shot was fired. Like an idiot, I bet her that she could not have the finals within 15 minutes of the last shot fired this year. I lost. She had the finals for me to view 12 minutes after she got the last score sheet. They were available for review when the competitors arrived at the banquet (at the table as you walked in). She had the winners identified by the time she got to the hotel - she and Angela were reviewing in the car on the way there. What took the longest was writing the checks - I had to stall with the prize drawings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAPEACH Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Its not on the same weekend. Don't you guys like to shoot two weekends in a row. Not exactly sure why you couldn't plan two weekends of shooting in a row. Sorry, read it wrong. They are on the same weekend which makes it much more difficult to shoot both. The matches are NOT on the same weekend, the SC Sectional is on April 11-12 while the Area 6 is on April 18-20th. You had it right the first time! As for the results, we typically get them posted for all the shooters to view within 30 minutes after the last shot, but we have an hour delay before they become final. The real delay is as Jack said, with writing the checks and it did take a lot longer to get them out for our awards ceremony. I even tried using Quicken to generate them, but you still have to key in the names on the checks for each shooter. Cindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Um, excuse me, but we were printing 1-hr "bitch and gripe" stage resuilts within a half hour of final shot! As you correctly identified and apparently recognize, however, the difficulty is determining WHO WON WHAT, and writing checks for them. SC had an awards banquet 3 hrs later, and I'll bet during that time they spent the entire three hours figuring out who won what, writing checks, organizing plaques, etc, etc, i.e., all the MANUAL things you have to do that you CAN'T do until after results are finalized. Same thing at the nationals. Awards are held hours after last shot. Why? Because we have to figure out WHO WON WHAT, and THAT is a manual process. It's a manual process that I'm trying to get addressed in a future point release of ezws, but for now IT'S STILL a manual process and it takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I am coming from West Virginia and I shot the Area 6 this year and I was too late to get into the SC Sectional. Area 6 was a great match and I wanted to go back but it is kind of hard when you live 10+ hours away and drive everywhere to save cash. Two long trips in one month is too many. I wish one of them was in May then I would be able to go to both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 (edited) Its not on the same weekend. Don't you guys like to shoot two weekends in a row. Not exactly sure why you couldn't plan two weekends of shooting in a row. Sorry, read it wrong. They are on the same weekend which makes it much more difficult to shoot both. The matches are NOT on the same weekend, the SC Sectional is on April 11-12 while the Area 6 is on April 18-20th. You had it right the first time! In fact, I believe there is a USPSA ByLaws requirement that a state championship cannot be held on the same weekend as the member section's area championship. I didn't want to move the match, either, but we got blindsided by South River when they summarily and without prior consultation took our first weekend in May for the next three years. Edited August 2, 2007 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffwalsh Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Now would seem to be a good time to change the venue of the match. It has been at South River for 3 years, I think. There are other clubs that could run it. I heard a whisper about Tennessee. Anyone wants to step up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
et45 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Atlanta(South River) is the perfect venue for Area 6.It is located in the center of the Area.I say keep it there for as long as they want to put it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 That would suck if they are one after another. I wanted to compete in both but there is no way if they are a week a part. If you can only pick one, I recommend SC, both have excellent stages and great folks all around, I have friends at both, but SC has typically had a better payout and results have been done faster to get me on the road home. This is what I did this year and intend to do next year As you note, Linda Chico is a GM when it comes to getting out her match results at the conclusion of the match but since they do awards at a banquet about 3 hours after the match is over, actual time from last shot fired until the time the wards begin is quicker at the Area 6. Of course the time passes more quickly at the dinner table in Greenville after you have showered and had a beer than it does waiting under a tent at Area 6. Charles Bond Ah, sorry, but you are wrong here Charles. In 2006, Linda had the finals 20 minutes after the last shot was fired. Like an idiot, I bet her that she could not have the finals within 15 minutes of the last shot fired this year. I lost. She had the finals for me to view 12 minutes after she got the last score sheet. They were available for review when the competitors arrived at the banquet (at the table as you walked in). She had the winners identified by the time she got to the hotel - she and Angela were reviewing in the car on the way there. What took the longest was writing the checks - I had to stall with the prize drawings. Actually Jack we are both right. I was there and know that Linda had the results ready within the 20 minutes you stated but since the awards dinner did not start until 7pm and awards were handed out after everyone had eaten dinner, there was at least 3 hours from last shot until the start of the awards. The issue was getting back on the road home the soones after the awards are presented. If you stay for the awards, you actually get back on the road sooner at the area match but you are just not as comfortable at the range waiting as you are relaxing at the match hotel as is the case at your match. If the issue is simply who has final match results ready the quickest, your match wins that race. So exactly what did you lose in the bet?? Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 For one, I'd be more than pleased if it stays at South River this year... I wasn't able to make the match this year, and South River is my old "home club"... It'd be really cool to be able to come shoot there again, and see all the folks I used to shoot with, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockSpeed31 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 For one, I'd be more than pleased if it stays at South River this year... I wasn't able to make the match this year, and South River is my old "home club"... It'd be really cool to be able to come shoot there again, and see all the folks I used to shoot with, etc. Dave, We would love to have you on the range again my friend. Come on down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdrocker Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 O.K. I know I'll get slammed as a el-cheapo for this but what a about lower match fees for those who really want to shoot back to back?DaG I agree, but in fairness to the SC and Area 6 match staff, it's not limited to just these matches. Area 6 as a whole is probably the most expensive when it comes to match fees. Miss. $120, Tenn. $135, Al. $125. SC. $125. NC is pretty good and inline with rest of the country at $85. I find it AMAZING that clubs in NE, IA, MN, MI, KS, MO, PA, NV and many others can host state matches for less than 100 bucks!! Just my .02,,,, better make that .01. Save the other one for match fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LChico Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) Okay. Everyone take a deep breath. First, many thanks for all the compliments about the SC Section match. We have been working hard for years to build the match to it's current level. 10 years ago, when we had 93 shooters, not very many folks would have considered us a conflict for anyone's match. Second, I know Cindy appreciates the comments about the Area 6. The fact that the match draws shooters and staff to the Area 6 from every other USPSA Area demonstrates that the reputation of the match nationwide. Third, while I understand folks are disappointed, the dates have really been set. Changing the dates or the location of either match will not happen at this point. Major match planning starts 10 to 12 months before the event. As Charles Bond and Jack Suber were discussing options and dates, I was calling or emailing Jack nearly daily. . . "I need a locked-in date NOW! I can't even start talking to hotels until I have a date." Planning includes contracts with the range, hotels, caterers, printers, shirt vendors, trophies, printers, and the list goes on. Yeah, there's a lot of work the month before a major match, but the real work starts 10 to 12 months earlier. I would really have to dislike someone to drop a large undertaking like this into their laps with only 9 months to go. Fourth, it's not a competition (at least not between the two matches ). We are not trying to 'out-do' each other. Stating your preference for one format or the other is a bit counter-productive.They are both popular and for good reason. If that wasn't true, no one would care how close we put them together. The original question about the match dates has been asked & answered. Can we close this thread? Linda Chico (L-2035) Columbia SC Edited August 2, 2007 by LChico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 O.K. I know I'll get slammed as a el-cheapo for this but what a about lower match fees for those who really want to shoot back to back?DaG I agree, but in fairness to the SC and Area 6 match staff, it's not limited to just these matches. Area 6 as a whole is probably the most expensive when it comes to match fees. Miss. $120, Tenn. $135, Al. $125. SC. $125. NC is pretty good and inline with rest of the country at $85. I find it AMAZING that clubs in NE, IA, MN, MI, KS, MO, PA, NV and many others can host state matches for less than 100 bucks!! Just my .02,,,, better make that .01. Save the other one for match fees. If all the matches you listed paid back like SC Sec. I would go to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdrocker Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Thats true, but at all the matches what do you hear from 90% of the shooters, "Eh, it's all about having fun". I didn't say I wouldn't shot them, just don't think they should be so high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Unless I missed the title of this thread completely, it is about pistol match announcements. The Enos Forum has other threads to discuss match expenses, payback, thinks you hate, etc. The USPSA Forum allows members much freedom to be critical of everything and everyone including me. No one is doing the Area 6 match a favor by comparing it to another match and from Linda Chico's post above she feels the same way. I do not quesiton that most who have posted here mean well but we are way way way outside the purpose of the thread. For those of you coming to the Area 6 match in 2008, we will be glad to have you. For those of you attending the SC State match in 2008, you will find a great match awaiting you. For those of you who seize the opportunity to shoot two great matches over a seven day period, you will be glad you did. Charles Bond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 No one is doing the Area 6 match a favor by comparing it to another match and from Linda Chico's post above she feels the same way. I do not quesiton that most who have posted here mean well but we are way way way outside the purpose of the thread.Charles Bond Charles, IF you are referring to my post: If all the matches you listed paid back like SC Sec. I would go to them! I was not comparing Area 6 to any other match. I simply made a statement that SC does a nice job of paying back to shooters.I did not single out area 6. If you took that as a comparisson, it's not due to what I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffwalsh Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I wouldn't mind seeing the shirts go away and the match fee come down. I have too many already and a heavy polo is too hot to shoot in the south anyway. Have shirts for sale for those who want them and give the rest of us a break on fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockSpeed31 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I wouldn't mind seeing the shirts go away and the match fee come down. I have too many already and a heavy polo is too hot to shoot in the south anyway. Have shirts for sale for those who want them and give the rest of us a break on fees. I kinda agree with that. One of the main reasons I offer to RO on Sat & Sun and shoot for free on Friday is I can't afford the entry fee, as it is kinda high for a family of three (soon to be 4) on a single income. Although the rest of my family doesn't shoot (yet) it is still hard for me to pay to shoot a big match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
et45 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I wouldn't mind seeing the shirts go away and the match fee come down. I have too many already and a heavy polo is too hot to shoot in the south anyway. Have shirts for sale for those who want them and give the rest of us a break on fees. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I kinda agree with that. One of the main reasons I offer to RO on Sat & Sun and shoot for free on Friday is I can't afford the entry fee, as it is kinda high for a family of three (soon to be 4) on a single income. Although the rest of my family doesn't shoot (yet) it is still hard for me to pay to shoot a big match. +1 Family of 4 Single income 3 shooters ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbosik Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 bottom line as i see it is,dates and locations are already set..both matches will suffer because of this..and although i like 2 great matchs in a row, it is costly both in time and $$$..i personally will have to make a choice between the two,as i think most others will too..bummer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 [MODERATOR INTERRUPTION] As Charles and Linda both so nicely pointed out, this thread is not the place for your preferences. Please keep the topic on track regarding the 2008 Area 6 Match and follow the Forum guidelines as you do so Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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