tgibson Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I actually brought this over from another thread, but it seemed like it might be a good topic discussion. Something that I have noticed in the last couple of months is that in this game, your perception of what is fast and slow is so warped, half the time you don't know where you are going to end up. Especially if the other people on your squad are much better or worse shooters than you. I was so wound up with my performance a couple of weekends ago, I wasn't even going to finish the match. I was shooting with a bunch of guys that weren't quite at the same level as me, and when the results came out, I ended up winning the match (maybe they just had worse day than me). Another good example of warped sense of time is yesterday shooting the "Times Two" classifier. After my first two shots, here is the conversation I had with myself: "You are going too slow! You need to speed up! No you don't. Keep shooting A's. You are doing just fine. Now when you move, make sure to explode out of the box and "settle" into the next one with your gun on target. Nice movement! That was smooth!" Now how fast do you think I could move and how well do you think I could shoot all while having this in depth conversation? I ended up dropping two points with a time of 6.70 for a 91.12% classifier in limited. Surprised me too. So my question is, "Am I the only one that that has noticed this?" When I have discussions with my Dad and my shooting buddies and point it out to them, you can sort of see the light bulb go on and they say, yea I know what you mean. If anyone else has noticed this I would appreciate your feedback. If you have noticed this and you are a GM shooter it sounds like I might be headed in the right direction. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. TG TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Welcome to the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 When I slow down and just shoot the sights I invariably shoot faster with Much better points.... It took me years to get to where I remember/am able to control myself (my nature) and do this about half the time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 When I slow down and just shoot the sights I invariably shoot faster with Much better points.... It took me years to get to where I remember/am able to control myself (my nature) and do this about half the time.... You never seemed excited when I shot with you...always in control... Right...been there,done that...it is tough to keep it together sometimes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Talk to just about any GM about their run. Most of them can spend 5 minutes explaining what happened on a 5 second run. It is as if you are watching everything in slow motion and pick up on every tiny detail of the run. It is happening so slow in your eyes that you think that you need to speed up but, actually, you are already moving at your capacity. The best thing you can do is sit back and enjoy the ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoonie Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 TG I've noticed what you are talking about. I have been on a squad of 80 year old single stack shooters that probably could have shot faster using their walkers , but being on their squad with them I had no idea about run times prior to shooting the stage. I have shot on squads with GM and M class shooters and knew exactly what was needed for a good run. What I found to be interesting was that I performed better on the geriatic squad because I did not push myself beyond what I could do, I just did what I could do with no performance pressure. The same thing applies when you are shooting in a squad mostly populated by a division other than yours, ie. revlover vs limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 The feeling of speed comes from the presence of "chaos." If you can process the infomation that is being given to you it should not feel fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Therein lies the problem of perception. It can delude your view of what is actually occurring. Your experiences are also a window into how many tasks our sub-conscious and conscious minds can accomplish in concert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgibson Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 TGI've noticed what you are talking about. I have been on a squad of 80 year old single stack shooters that probably could have shot faster using their walkers , but being on their squad with them I had no idea about run times prior to shooting the stage. I have shot on squads with GM and M class shooters and knew exactly what was needed for a good run. What I found to be interesting was that I performed better on the geriatic squad because I did not push myself beyond what I could do, I just did what I could do with no performance pressure. The same thing applies when you are shooting in a squad mostly populated by a division other than yours, ie. revlover vs limited. You are exactly right. At this point in my game, I am almost looking to shoot with the "more mature" shooters. This way, I am not trying to beat anyones time. I am truly shooting my own game. TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgibson Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 The feeling of speed comes from the presence of "chaos." If you can process the infomation that is being given to you it should not feel fast. Well put. I am going to try and remember this. It sort of goes back to the saying, "smooth is fast". So you think I should just think about what I am doing in a smooth relaxed state. There is no way my body will be able to keep up with my brain. If this is what you are saying, it makes good sense. TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 The feeling of speed comes from the presence of "chaos." If you can process the infomation that is being given to you it should not feel fast. Well put. I am going to try and remember this. It sort of goes back to the saying, "smooth is fast". So you think I should just think about what I am doing in a smooth relaxed state. There is no way my body will be able to keep up with my brain. If this is what you are saying, it makes good sense. TG Yep, you got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 The feeling of speed comes from the presence of chaos. That's a great sentence. That brings to mind a Bruce Lee favorite (paraphrasing): When a runner is running as fast as he can, he will not feel that he should be running faster. To understand that we have to know how to really pay attention. Common to every impeccable string of fire is the absence of the sense of passing time. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 TG, That's exactly what I know to be true....when you're really smoking fast, it feels slow. I shot El Prez not long ago and felt I was shooting at a snail's pace. I wound up not dropping a point with just a tick below 95% national percentage on it. I'm at a shooting school right now for work and it's a perform to a certain level or go home type class. We were shooting today and I was really in the zone on one string/stage, which was "rapid fire" and it calls for 12 shots with a reload. The guy next to me was shooting and I was seeing his brass fly over my shoulder while I was shooting and I couldn't believe how slow it felt like I was shooting. I was seeing my sights, his brass, thinking to myself "I hope one doesn't get in my shirt (happened yesterday) and drilling 10 after 10 while it was all happening....really weird, but cool. It's amazing what your mind can process if you just let it happen. Getting to that zone on demand is the challenge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odie Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 As of late, I feel as though I am moving in and out of consciousness as far as shooting goes. If I feel as though I'm going too slow, and try to speed up, it ends up, in fact, slow, or with crappy hits. If I feel as though I'm going slow, and just keep shooting what I see, it's ends up being a good time with good hits. When that conscious mind invades, it can be a hard thing to ignore. I've found that if I will just step out of the picture in a sense, things come out a lot better, not to mention it lets me shoot stress free. At Area 4 I didn't even realize a lot of the poppers were forward falling. That made me feel really good after I did realize it because I knew then that my mind hadn't been in the way on those stages. I just wish I could do it all the time. Hopefully that day rolls around soon, but I am realizing that I can't MAKE that day come, it will come when I LET it, not when I MAKE it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgibson Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 TG,That's exactly what I know to be true....when you're really smoking fast, it feels slow. I shot El Prez not long ago and felt I was shooting at a snail's pace. I wound up not dropping a point with just a tick below 95% national percentage on it. I'm at a shooting school right now for work and it's a perform to a certain level or go home type class. We were shooting today and I was really in the zone on one string/stage, which was "rapid fire" and it calls for 12 shots with a reload. The guy next to me was shooting and I was seeing his brass fly over my shoulder while I was shooting and I couldn't believe how slow it felt like I was shooting. I was seeing my sights, his brass, thinking to myself "I hope one doesn't get in my shirt (happened yesterday) and drilling 10 after 10 while it was all happening....really weird, but cool. It's amazing what your mind can process if you just let it happen. Getting to that zone on demand is the challenge! It sounds like things are going good for you at your class. Congradulations. I know what you mean by letting your brain process the information. Last weekend we had a stage that was shoot six, reload, shoot six, reload, shoot six. Like you said, during the shoot, I could almost count the pieces of brass in my perifrial vision while I was shooting. Even while thinking that, I was telling myself to make sure and implement the new reloading style I came up with. CRAZY!! TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 The feeling of speed comes from the presence of "chaos." That's excellent. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) ...The presence of chaos Quick, somone change this guy's username to "Confucius" - Because he's quotable as hell. That's perfect. The best tool for this, bar none, is a video camera. Some of the guys I shoot with give me a hard time because I tape nearly EVERYTHING we shoot. But you know what you'll notice watching yourself on video? First - Those stages where you felt like you were going warp-speed, had mediocre sight-pictures, and were literally going as fast as humanly possible? You know, the ones where you wer thinking stuff like "DONT MISS THAT! ... HIT THE SWINGER OR THIS RUN IS OVER!" the entire tine? They look bad. Often the video shows a run almost twice as long as it felt at the time. And it ALWAYS looks rushed and hectic. Second - Those stages where your mind is clear and calm, and you smoothy run the sights across the targets, breaking shots when the front sight gives you the OK? They feel slow. (No "presence of chaos" to put your brain into panic mode). But they are nearly always SMOKIN when you watch the video. It looks effortless, and what felt like a 20 second crawl through the stage is over so fast you almost can't believe it. Edited July 20, 2007 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) I just realized how much I sound like a Star-Wars character. Read what I just wrote, and compare it to this. I pulled it at random off some nerd's website... The LIGHT SIDE OF THE FORCETo use the Force, one must be at harmony with it. Only when calm, at peace, can one act with assurance of control. When one is at harmony with the universe, one acts as one must to maintain harmony. The will and the Force are one; the actor and the acted upon, the same. There is no contradiction: there is unity. That is the path of Light. The DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE The universe is an angry morass of power. To release that power, one must harness one's basest emotions: hate, anger, fear, agression. By releasing one's own anger, one releases the anger of eternity. Only when filled with hate, can one perform the most hateful of acts. The will and the Force are one. That is the choice of the Jedi: serenity or hatred; peace or anger; freedom or tyranny; learning or power; the Light or the Darkness. So now, do you shoot like Yoda would shoot? Or do you hose the targets like a naughty little lord of the Sith? I hope you appreciate how truly difficult it was to post this with a straight face... Edited July 20, 2007 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I came across this thread searching for answers to a problem. Its so good that I thought others may benefit, hence my BTT. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feynslowblade Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 There was this game which came free with Windows years ago called minesweeper. I spent zillions of hours playing it. It would record the fastest times. One thing which I noticed which is exactly as you described is that during my fastest runs, I was actually thinking gosh this is a very slow run, I am taking too long, why did I hesitate on that last click, etc. Perception is distorted when one goes zen. Awareness takes over and slows down time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn-rgr Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I have an older gentleman I shoot with who looks painfully slow when he shoots. He is very very smooth, but looks like he is moving in slow motion. I never could figure out why he outshot me all the time. I was flying through stages (in my mind) and he would still be faster than me. That was last year (my first year shooting USPSA). Now I regularly beat him because I figured out that when I feel slow and smooth, I am actually very fast and accurate. Its a great feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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