Windows Vista "Home Edition"

[gino_aki]

I'd look for a a fairly new used/refurbished/new old stock laptop from IBM/HP/Acer etc, Intel Duocore or AMD 64 X2, 2gigs ram, whatever size harddrive you wanted, same with DVD burner, WiFi, card readers etc, discreet graphics if you play games, ATI or NVidia integrated grahics if you don't, with XP Pro already installed or have a techie reformat and reinstall after removing Vista. I have Vista on the new Toshiba I got, so far it's greatest use has been to play the Chess game that's now included in the Games programs. Even with 2 gigs of ram it's slow. With Intel integrated graphics all the new eye candy keeps hiccuping. Tech radio show here guys do a brisk business in rolling back Vista machines to XP. They say the biggest hassle for them is device drivers, but unless your hardware is bleeding edge, XP drivers should be available. Vista is like the PS3 and the XBox 360...until the software and games catch up with them, they're just expensive statements.

Edited July 15, 2007 by gino_aki

[EricW]

OK, just got done jumping the power input jack to the PCB...Dell sucks. Or whoever the doofuses that wave soldered the motherboard are retards...

Anyway...one more Q on the Macbook. Can I see the XP partition in OS X and vice versa? i.e., can I get to my data on the other partition?

Also, is there a way to run simultaneous OS-X and XP sessions? What's the current state of emulation software? Adequate? DOA? M-I-C-K-E-Y.... (like it was 5 years ago?)

TIA!

[George]

Hi Eric,

If you partition the XP section of the HD 32GB, or less and in FAT32, then the OSX side can drag-n-drop in and out of the XP partition with full write priveleges. The reverse is not true and Windows cannot see OSX at all and thinks it's little partition is it's whole world. This is actually a good thing considering viruses and such as the X part of the drive is immune to anything that happens in the XP partition. I just leave a folder on the XP desktop earmarked for files that need dual access. Then I create a shortcut/alias to that folder on the OSX desktop. This allows cross system file access, just managed in OSX.

If you use NTFS for the XP partition, then it's read only to OSX and file transfer requires external media usage. I find FAT-32 a good option if you will use the machine equally in both, or primarily in X. Almost always in XP, NTFS may need to be the choice for the extra long term robustness of the filesystem format.

The emulators that run inside X (Parallels and DarWine) use additional overhead on top of any actual XP partition and do not run all 3rd party software properly like a true dual boot system will. You will have to check the developer site for Parallels to see if your app set is supported as the emulator is not 100%. Total time to boot from XP to OSX and vice versa is under 25 seconds on a MacBook Pro and about 35 seconds on a MacBook so getting bacdk and forth is a snap in practice on true dual boot machines.

[KGentry]

+1 George!! Microcrap has done all of us Apple users a favor by comming out with Vista a wanna be copy of OSX that does not work correctly. There are so many threads about major issues with Vista Micocrap should just pull it from the stores!! George is right, get a MAC and dual boot both and you will never be happier!

Speller Edit

Edited July 20, 2007 by KGentry

[vluc]

A timely reply as my daughter needs a Mac for her broadcast work at school, but wants the luxury of PC titles.

Many thanks. George, I may be calling you!

Vince

[geezer-lock]

Eric,

There are plenty of solid machines in the Dell Optiplex line that have all of the legacy ports. They can be ordered with XP or without an OS at all. If you already own an XP machine then go ahead and buy that Vista PC locally, boot up from your XP CD, format the drive and install XP. A “Vista Ready” machine will run XP nicely and all of your software will hum along happily.

We are an all Microsoft shop but I don’t expect to begin testing Vista until SP1 has been out for some time. Deployment is many months out and may not happen at all if our primary management tool hiccups on Vista.

And it’s not like Mac Perfection out there either:

Results 1 - 10 of about 128,000,000 for mac os problems. (0.13 seconds).

David C

[George]

Results 1 - 100 of about 211,000,000 for windows os problems. (0.22 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari...-8&oe=UTF-8

[AZ38super]

Results 1 - 100 of about 211,000,000 for windows os problems. (0.22 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari...-8&oe=UTF-8

Not to start a war but Win PCs are like 95% of the market so the number isn't so bad by percentage.

[George]

No war intended, main point here is you will always find whatever you choose to look for

The other point is that Open Source based OS's (UNIX, LINIX & Mac OSX) are known for a fact to be more reliable than MS written OS's on a day to day basis when you check and compare runtime without failure stats for equal numbers of machines, doing similar tasks, using similar apps.

Server runtime stats are the easiest to find and are the most compelling ones too

[AZ38super]

George,

I have tried all the open source stuff and don't care to waste my time with them for drivers, software and such.

I also worked with the Macs, not my cup of tea and they limit software choices but are getting better since they are almost windows boxes now.

I run PC and servers without any problems with runtimes or failures, it can be done when you know what to do.

Last server I had to replace was running Linix (raid hardware was dying and couldn't be fixed). New server has Linix as well and locks up every now and then out of the blue.

Don't have that on my Win 2003 servers but Linix is what the vendor runs for that application so we go with it the new server is ten times overkill on hardware for what the OS and app need to run.

I used to run dual boots and larger, not worth it for me. I want to be getting work done when I'm on the computer. (which is 2/3 or the day)

Edited July 20, 2007 by AZ38super

[EricW]

This thread was really informative...right up until the Mac vs. PC holy war started...

Edited July 21, 2007 by EricW

[George]

It's just a simple truth that Win 98/2k/XP/ME, etc... are more prone to OS corruption when system lockups occur during disk transactions whilst Nix based systems are less likely to eat themselves in this circumstance.

I included all forms of Nix when I posted so as not to exclude, but I really only consider Mac OSX to be a true productivity environment among the Nix's. It is a lot closer to real Nix' anyway being based on FreeBSD instead of a L'Nix distro.

The reason I recommend the Mac hardware platform and using it as a dual boot system is that it brings an "extremely" reliable productivity environment (OSX) to the table along with a widely used standard (WXP). Ths is a Win, Win IMHO and not something to be tossed off so lightly. The resistance/immunity to virus/adware/spyware/trojans that OSX brings with it is worth every penny of the price of admission. This may not be as clearcut of an advantage in 4-5 years when the crackers interest catches-up , but right now it is.

[George]

Ever since going to a dual boot machine, I am finding my time spent in Windows increasing to a bit over 30% of my total usage time now. It's the only way to go for machine control work (serial port stuff) and there is absolutely no substitute for it as a viewing/testing/building platform for web work (which I do a lot of).

I don't nay-say Windows, I simply nay-say mfgr's calling this stuff plug-n-play to sell huge heaps of it to the un-washed masses. The truth to any system is it works fine when setup and managed properly. The other truth to this is that very few folks know anything beyond the most minimal basics about IT systems and have no conception of what it takes to set something up properly and use it trouble-free over the longterm

Anyone who is interested in what it takes to have a hassle-free experience carving out a dual-boot machine on a new Intel Mac is welcome to PM me for help. The process and help Apple provides is pretty good, but there are several things that happen randomly on the Windows side of the install and if you don't know what to do, it will stop most of ya' cold. I have done over two dozen of these setups now and know the various foibles that occur pretty well.

Regards,

[geezer-lock]

This thread was really informative...right up until the Mac vs. PC holy war started...

I hope everyone will accept my apology for contributing to that.

David C

[Flatland Shooter]

......... If you already own an XP machine then go ahead and buy that Vista PC locally, boot up from your XP CD, format the drive and install XP. A “Vista Ready” machine will run XP nicely and all of your software will hum along happily.

David C

My daughter, who regularly advises she is the "smart one" in the family went ahead and bought a HP Vista machine. Now that she is having fits with the software, she wants to go back to XP.

I see places like Royal Discount are still selling MS XP (both home and Pro). Is it really as simple as booting up with the XP CD in the machine, then using it to format the harddrive, then follow that with loading the XP system to the harddrive?

Thanks for any help.

Bill

[shred]

......... If you already own an XP machine then go ahead and buy that Vista PC locally, boot up from your XP CD, format the drive and install XP. A “Vista Ready” machine will run XP nicely and all of your software will hum along happily.

David C

My daughter, who regularly advises she is the "smart one" in the family went ahead and bought a HP Vista machine. Now that she is having fits with the software, she wants to go back to XP.

I see places like Royal Discount are still selling MS XP (both home and Pro). Is it really as simple as booting up with the XP CD in the machine, then using it to format the harddrive, then follow that with loading the XP system to the harddrive?

Thanks for any help.

Bill

That will do it for the operating system (you will need to make sure you have a valid XP license key-- some of the shadier online places sell "OEM" versions that don't) You will also have to reinstall all the drivers and application software. Download the key XP drivers (video, network, chipset) and put them on a USB flash drive before you start formatting..

[Flatland Shooter]

That will do it for the operating system (you will need to make sure you have a valid XP license key-- some of the shadier online places sell "OEM" versions that don't) You will also have to reinstall all the drivers and application software. Download the key XP drivers (video, network, chipset) and put them on a USB flash drive before you start formatting..

Thanks for the answers shred. Is this a project for an amatuer or should I leave it to the pros?

And does anyone know if Royal Discount delivers valid XP keys?

Thanks.

Bill

[George]

The Royal Discount "Shrinkwrap" OEM XP packages are fully licensed and have valid XP keys. I have bought and installed 14 copies of XP Pro (Shrinkwrap version at $149 when you buy 3, or more) and 5 Student Teacher (3pack) versions of Office 2.3k and 2.7k from them. At $149 for the 3 install license, this version of MS Office is a killer deal. The copies of XP and Office I have bought from them have been used mostly on dual boot Intel Mac's I prepare for my clients, but I have also updated an older Dell desktop from back around 2k (it had Win2K on it) and a 2005 Gateway laptop that didn't have it's restore disc's, but came with XP installed.

Yeah, it's the real McCoy. Royal Discount = ***** (5 stars!) :-)

[Flatland Shooter]

The Royal Discount "Shrinkwrap" OEM XP packages are fully licensed and have valid XP keys. I have bought and installed 14 copies of XP Pro (Shrinkwrap version at $149 when you buy 3, or more) and 5 Student Teacher (3pack) versions of Office 2.3k and 2.7k from them. At $149 for the 3 install license, this version of MS Office is a killer deal. The copies of XP and Office I have bought from them have been used mostly on dual boot Intel Mac's I prepare for my clients, but I have also updated an older Dell desktop from back around 2k (it had Win2K on it) and a 2005 Gateway laptop that didn't have it's restore disc's, but came with XP installed.

Yeah, it's the real McCoy. Royal Discount = ***** (5 stars!) :-)

Thanks George. Now to decide if this task is within my capabilities.

Bill

[EricW]

OK, I tried a HP Desktop with Vista last night just for giggles. Bought it from Costco so I could be SURE that I could return it.

OMFG! I need therapy now...well...at least more therapy than I used to.

- It's hideously slow. I bought a HP 3+Mhz Intel quad core with 3GB of ram and I'd swear my 80286 ran faster.

- Nothing works...except Word Perfect. None of my software would run. Not Autocad, not Quickbooks.

- There is NO support for the HP. No drivers on the web. No acknowledgement that my model even exists.

- Vista is the most neurotic operating system in history. Everything's a crisis. Everything's a threat, including it's own OS components. After hour two, I was sitting in front of it wearing a tinfoil hat and scanning for black helicopters. I'm not even exaggerating here. It was an incredible experience. The whole screen dims out every time one of the alerts pops up. And...it alerts over and over again for the same app you clicked. This thing could give someone epilepsy.

- Networking is more user-friendly than XP

- The 24" screen is beautiful.

- There is no way to make XP work on a Vista box these days. MicroThug has seen to that. By not providing driver support, you can install XP, but you can't see any of the hardware. HP doesn't even provide disks now. No OS backup. No drivers. Nada.

Well...I'm going to spend a lot more dough on hardware, but it looks like the Mac is it from here on out. I looked at Dell desktops of similar specs to the Mac...and they cost nearly as much as a Mac...and the support comes from India.

Want to have a pleasant computing experience? Call Apple support. I was just checking into just how complete the UNIX implementation was on the Mac? Native English speakers actually went and dug for the answer and I wasn't even a customer!

[John Heiter]

Our Zones rep called me the other day about a deal she was running on HP laptops. FYI, they come w/ Vista but she said Zones can do a free downgrade CD so you can run XP on it if you prefer. The 6720s for $499 looked like a heck of a good deal.

HP_Sale.pdf

[BritinUSA]

Well...I'm going to spend a lot more dough on hardware, but it looks like the Mac is it from here on out. I looked at Dell desktops of similar specs to the Mac...and they cost nearly as much as a Mac...and the support comes from India.

Want to have a pleasant computing experience? Call Apple support. I was just checking into just how complete the UNIX implementation was on the Mac? Native English speakers actually went and dug for the answer and I wasn't even a customer!

I have to use Windows stuff at work and it's a delight to go home to an Apple. Once you go to a Mac you'll never want a Windows machine EVER AGAIN.

The best thing about Apple is not the hardware (and that rocks) it's the software, it's intuitive and it works.

I'm still using an old Powerbook, it has only 1Ghz clock speed, and it's a big sluggish using PhotoShop, when I try the 2Ghz machines at the local Apple store they are blinding fast and the monitor clarity is amazing.

[Gary1911A1]

I had heard it said "Once you go Mac, you won't go back." I'm a believer now and will never use windows again.

[George]

Eric, when you are ready for a Dual Boot Intel Mac (running XP Pro just like it oughta') just let me know. I can talk ya' through it, but can also offer some big dividends for ya' on the Mac side if you want a custom build-up done.

I am typing this on a Dual Boot MacBookPro and just installed 3 Mac Mini's for our new office machines running XP in Parallels as a ghosted virtual machine. The XP VM runs as fast as a full dual boot does and it allows us to run our specialized accounting apps while booted to X and use IE7 for the websites that require it (banking and payroll services).

We replaced our old Dell boxes with the Mini's for a cost of under $600 a machine plus the XP copy for each ($149 at Royal Discount).

Our office LAN is now all Mac on the client side with every machine running XP as a VM and doing all the email and websurfing in OSX for internet safety/security reasons.

[John Heiter]

Went Mac in the 80's. Came back.

Went Mac again in the mid 90's. Came back.

Went Mac again through the G4's and G5's. Came back.

PC's are like guns and no one will do everything I need.

Why sit around trying to argue about which one is "THE" best. You really need one or more of each kind?