New Caspian Needs A Diet For Idpa

[rvb]

Ok, so I'm trying to build my first 1911. I'm almost done, just needs sights and plunger tube (will wait till I know it runs well to make it look pretty). I'm hoping to put a few test rounds down range tomorrow.

While I'm focusing more on USPSA lately, and would like to use this gun in L10/SS, I still occasionally shoot IDPA and might use it in CDP.... except it's already 41.15oz w/o the sights/plunger tube!!

It's a no-frills build, and I think that's hurting the weight. It's a Caspian basic s/s frame, Caspian s/s slide (no front serations, no flat top), bushing barrel. The current grips are even plastic. The only "extra" is a FLGR. I was hoping to add an SVI magwell.

1) can you guess how much weight is saved w/ a USGI recoil system vs my EGW s/s FLGR?

2) The Caspian frames have extra metal under the grips in the "empty" area on a GI frame.... would it be worth it to have that extra material machined out? Could I put it under a drillpress and "cheese" that area? If so, lots of small holes or a few big ones?

3) Maybe it's time I completely give up on IDPA. The rules always frustrate me every time I play, and if I can't build a no-frills gun and be legal, well, ... that's just goofy.

4) It may not matter since this is my first attempt and it may not even work!

5) Other suggestions????

Thanks!

Ryan

[rvb]

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I'm sure your build will work for you. I would remove the material under the grips first. That should give you enough material to make weight. I would cut the area out instead of the multiple holes. Lots of small holes is lighter than a few big holes. Good luck. Thanks Eric

[buddy_fuentes]

Some of the rules of IDPA are not what I think they should be either. However, you must remember that this is a game and treat it as such. The rules are suppose to be designed to keep everyone on a level playing field and to eliminate the laser guide stuff.

I have trouble hanging on to those darn magazines! I shoot anyway and take the procedural in stride. Hey its fun. I use a different pistol in USPSA and therefore am able to play that game with a different tool.

Enjoy your new pistol and shoot it in whatever sport it falls into. They are all fun.

Good Luck, Buddy

[MichiganShootist]

Now that pistols are being weighed at many larger matches... this has become a common topic.

Do a search and you will see that many Single Stack users are going through the same process. There have bee at least 3 or 4 threads (some very long and detailed) on this topic in the past 2 months.

[Rik]

Colt nylon MSH - 1.5 oz. less than metal. Not sure about GI guide rod. Probably close to an ounce.

Rik

[rvb]

Aircooled6, thanks. That's what I was figuring, I was just hoping there would be a better solution than milling that area out (the hassle of sending out the frame to someone w/ a mill, etc... man I want a mill... )

Rik, I had thought about a plastic MSH, but I was keeping my fingers crossed on using a mag well. I may just get a well for uspsa and use a plastic MSH if I shoot the gun in IDPA. Good suggestion.

Buddy, I didn't intend this to be a gripe session. I seldom gripe about the game rules, because I believe as you do, that it's a game... however, what does bother me and makes this paragraph pertain to this 'smithing forum is all the "competition specific equipment" I need to play in the "no competition-only equipment" game. My no-frills .45 build is overweight; my old leather jacket didn't "cover" enough so I had had to buy a vest; I can't use regular cheap sports knee pads and I got tired of bleeding all over my socks so I had to buy 5.11 pants w/ soft knee pads that I only use for competition and forget about wearing shorts.... etc. I think equipment is such a MINOR part of competator performance that I hate to see it be SO hard to meet the equip rules in what's supposed to be an "everymans" game. And while at the club level it would be very easy to shoot w/ an extra oz and no one would know or even care.... *I* would know....

[buddy_fuentes]

rvb...I didn't take it as a gripe session. You just stated facts and concerns. Many others echo your thoughts as well.

If you really want a milling machine for home use, Harbor Freight. I know a gunsmith that uses one on small jobs..

Buddy

[rvb]

rvb...I didn't take it as a gripe session. You just stated facts and concerns. Many others echo your thoughts as well.

If you really want a milling machine for home use, Harbor Freight. I know a gunsmith that uses one on small jobs..

Buddy

I've had my eye on them.... can only afford so many tools at once. Tomorrow I'm picking up a lightly-used blast-cabinet for bead blast work on this gun... A mini-mill is in the future, but I need a bigger work shop first. My one-stall garage is not large enough for all my wants/needs (nor is my wallet.... putting siding on the house this month, too!). This type of non-tollerace-critical work would be perfect for one of those cheapo mills.....

[Dave Sample]

I learned 20 some years ago that I did not have the 20 years and $150,000.00 to become a good machinist. I hired the best to do the little work I needed.

I still do that and I have never given that decision a second though.

Silly Rules in these games!

Edited April 18, 2007 by Dave Sample

[Bill Nesbitt]

About a year ago I bought this scale to weigh gun parts: http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/index.as...&ProdID=187

I like it.

I had to take some guns apart to get these weights of parts. If you smell Slide Glide, well

S&A stainless arched mag well: 2.85 oz.

Plastic arched mainspring housing: .40 oz.

Wilson plastic mag well: .10 oz.

Flat steel mainspring housing: 1.65 oz.

Std steel short spring guide: .35 oz

2 pc full length ss spring guide 1.50 oz.

The plastic mag wells are available from Numrich at $3.50 plus $5.95 shipping I think.

I took the scale with me one time when I was SOing an IDPA match and set it up in the safety area at my bay for informational purposes only. Most guns made weight. The few that didn't were all 1911's with both a full length guide rod and a steel magwell.

[Joe D]

That's odd. My CST Kimber makes weight with a S&A magwell, FLGR and Mag.

[Flexmoney]

Joe, sounds like Kimber is a little light in the loafers.

What does CST stand for anyway...Can't Shoot Targets ??

[Bill Nesbitt]

Not every gun that had a full length rod guide and a mag well was over weight. But every 1911 that was over weight for either ESP or CDP had both.

I think the weight of frame and slide have a lot to do with it. Some guns evidently have more steel in them.

[Jaxshooter]

I would find a good machinest and do the grip section first. You could also have them flat top and serrate the slide. (looks good not much weight savings). If you want a magwell go with aluminum.

[Flexmoney]

Well..it is a bit weird that a Caspian with a FLGR and S&A would be close. (Of course, that is my setup. )

Hey Bill...how much does a front sight and a rear Bomar weigh ?

[steel1212]

My 9mm for ESP and .45 for CDP both make weight with FLGRs. The .45 I lost the weight in the plastic MSH. They also have SA magwells and adjustable sights.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Flex, how tall & wide is your front sight? Does it have the cut out for a fiber optic. All factors need to be taken into consideration.

I have an old 70 series Colt done by Steve Nastoff. It has extensive checkering etc. and weighs 38.25 oz with mag. I have another old 70 series Colt done by Red Deem. It has stippling instead of checkering and weighs 39.90 oz with mag. Both have mag wells and short guide rods. I think everybody will have to weigh their own guns to see if they make weight.

Are there weight limits in USPSA SS Division?

[rvb]

Everyone, thanks for the information and thoughts.

Getting the area under the grips milled is up there on the option list... I'm thinking of even calling local machine shops... if they can do it while I wait/watch they wouldn't even need an FFL, and it would save shipping, etc. May be a cheap option. I will have to decide before I start doing any finish work.

I'm also thinking I could just throw in a GI recoil system and/or plastic MSH if/when I shoot cdp (always shot ssp anyways). But you helped me balance my options. I've kind of put the holes on the backburner.... although if my planned setup is -close- w/ a GI guiderod/plug, I may put it under the drill press (can do for free). Or, very likely, I won't do anything and if I do shoot it, do it for fun in esp division.

On a related note, I shot it for the first time last night.... and it went great!! I shot a total of 25 rnds w/ lots of stopping to inspect, and it ran 100%. Can't wait to get sights on it and see how well it groups (slide doesn't even have serations to help line things up). Just need some ejection tuning, cases were going out a little too vertical...

This building guns is fun.... I already have ideas for a .40 single-stack floating around in my head (and a frame in the safe to build on). tho it does cut into my dryfire time....

Thanks again.

rvb

[rvb]

Jax,

I already have the slide milled for sights... I'm thinking it is now too late to have the slide flat-topped? Serated, maybe....

Bill,

Thanks for the weights and the tip on the plastic mag well.... I thought those weren't being made anymore...

rvb

Edited April 20, 2007 by rvb

[Joe4d]

Sounds odd have you checked your scale ? Stainless is lighter than carbon.... I have a .40 built on a caspian carbon frame, steel FLG and steel S&A arched MSH, stainless essex 5"slide, ed brown non ramped barrel. Metal form 9 round mags no base pads. light hammer, titanium hammer strut, msh cap, firing pin and trigger. Carbon creations carbon fiber grips. Seems to me .45 should be lighter, same OD barrel larger Inside hole and a little less meat on breach face.

[rvb]

Sounds odd have you checked your scale ? Stainless is lighter than carbon.... I have a .40 built on a caspian carbon frame, steel FLG and steel S&A arched MSH, stainless essex 5"slide, ed brown non ramped barrel. Metal form 9 round mags no base pads. light hammer, titanium hammer strut, msh cap, firing pin and trigger. Carbon creations carbon fiber grips. Seems to me .45 should be lighter, same OD barrel larger Inside hole and a little less meat on breach face.

Joe,

That's actually a good point. I've only checked on one scale, and it could be off.

[Flexmoney]

Are there weight limits in USPSA SS Division?

The provisional division?

Somebody would have to look that up and see. I know there aren't any limits in L-10.

I seriosuly doubt we will see any scales at USPSA matches. Maybe a major that had a chrono.

Oh...not sure about my front sight. I think I saw it and the Bo-mar in a drawer the other day. I could probably put those on the Dillon scale. (Wow...487.2 grains, with a big blank of a front sight and the Bomar.)

487.2 grain = 1.113 ounce

[Gary Stevens]

Max weight in PSSD is 43 ounces.

Gary