Hot Brass Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Here is the situation: On the last stage of a club level match, a newbie shooter decides to switch from a 9mm/SSP gun to a .45acp/CDP gun. The SO says you can't do that, but the shooter insists. He even swears at the SO. To defuse the situation, the SO runs the shooter. He then records the time/points and brings the matter to the MD. If you were the MD, how would you handle the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) C 12. In any single contest, a shooter must use the same pistol in all stages of the contest. If the pistol he started with becomes unserviceable during the contest, he may use another pistol of the same type, action, and caliber. Such a shooter may resume the contest at the next scheduled “start signal”, but previous stages may not be re-shot. For example if a shooter starts with a Glock 34 and the gun breaks, the shooter may finish with another Glock 34, a Glock 17, a Glock 19 or a Glock 26. (All of these are 9mm and of the same action and type.) Sounds like a DNF to me. Let him continue the match but he will not be scored. Edited March 28, 2007 by theknightoflight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 C 2. Competitors will refrain from unsportsmanlike conduct, unfair actions, or the use of illegal equipment, which, in the opinion of the match director, tends to make a travesty of IDPA. Repeated offenses reported to the AC or HQ can result in having membership revoked. No need to swear at the SO for doing his job. I would have sent him home to think about his negative attitude & he would have gotten a DNF on the stage and the match scored accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 DNF for switching guns and then a DQ for running his mouth. If his attitude never changes and he doesn't come back, that's OK, he isn't the kind we want in the sport anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 With the limited information presented here ...... IF the SSP gun did not break. Send him home with a DQ for being an ass. IF the SSP gun did break let him finish with the CDP gun but receive no match score for the stage shot with the illegal gun. With that being said ..at MY club...there would have been 15 people offer him a loaner to finish with. (probably). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos SC Shooter Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) With the limited information presented here ...... IF the SSP gun did not break.Send him home with a DQ for being an ass. IF the SSP gun did break let him finish with the CDP gun but receive no match score for the stage shot with the illegal gun. With that being said ..at MY club...there would have been 15 people offer him a loaner to finish with. (probably). +1 There is almost always someone with the same gun or a spare just like it to help a shooter out. As for being an a$$, there is no excuse. Send him packing, there is no need and no room for that kind of person. Life is too short to have to put up with that kind of crap. Edited March 28, 2007 by Texas HK shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 To defuse the situation, the SO runs the shooter. Cuff em, in the back of the head (moderately) and when he regains consiousness, send him back to his mama for some retraining of his attitude. In the mean time DNF on the stage and score accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 To defuse the situation, the SO runs the shooter. Cuff em, in the back of the head (moderately) and when he regains consiousness, send him back to his mama for some retraining of his attitude. In the mean time DNF on the stage and score accordingly. ++! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 If he'd asked nicely, go ahead. What does it matter what a beginner shoots at a club match? I'd post his score separately under "Division: Mixed" and let it go at that. I'd also explain that it was not permitted under official rules, that if he wanted to shoot two guns in the future he could pay two entry fees and shoot the whole match twice. I woudn't have turned him down flat, but if I were the MD and he had cursed one of my SOs who did, he would get a DQ from the match and so shown on the scores. And a strong caution on his behavior if he came back next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Cursing at the RO or whatever he is in IDPA...would not go over well with me!! Allowing him to finish may have smoothed out the situation for the moment. I personally would not allow any one to be nasty or curse an Ro to get his way!! In all my years of shooting..I have never seen ANY bad conduct from a fellow shooter!!! I have seen Ro,s and match officials bend over backwards to help new shooters and even bend rules a little for people in some cases...when it was (the right thing to do)!! People that are willing to get nasty over an issue...would get a DQ from me. I will always accept the RO,s decision even if I think he is wrong!! I would never argue or cuss ar get angry in any way!!!! I think as shooters and just plain nice people we would all agree that it the way it has to be! JMHO Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 You guys crack me up!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) You guys crack me up!!! I'm tellin ya . Am I the only guy who read "CLUB LEVEL MATCH" and "NEW SHOOTER" in the first post? Let me understand this; a new guy breaks a gun, wants to finish the match with a TOUGHER GUN TO SHOOT and you guys are lighting the torches and sharpening the pitchforks. OK, that's one way to handle it. How about some common sense? He is giving up two rounds and switching to major. He's not asking to be scored with the mouse guns, or load a ten rounder in his .45. Yes, if it were the UNIVERSAL GALACTIC CHAMPIONSHIPS and he were "in the hunt" to win it all, I spend some effort finding him an identical gun to borrow FOR ONE STAGE. but in this case, I think you guys are putting out a match with a gallon of gas. Calm down and think about it. It's a local match. If it was a new guy, truly a new guy, how likely is he to "snap off" your little match? Is he gonna win it all by switching from 10x9mm to 8x.45? Probably not. How would I call it? (That's the thread title, right?) I would have let him finish the match with any safe, legal gun. Hell even a BUG if he wanted to. I would have also let him know it was technically outside the way the sport at the intergalactic level was intended, and that in the future, if he wanted his scores to count he would need to find an appropriate back up gun when he needed to switch mid match. If it was a new guy I just EDUCATED and made a friend because I helped him to understand instead of just wrapping the rule book around the nearest club. I don't know the personality of your particular group. Had people been trying to retrain him all day? That can grate on you, still no excuse for cussing an SO. That being said, if he had just started cussing before I hit him upside his head with the rule book, I would have declined to run him, and asked him over to another berm. First I would ask about tehrets (sp?) as normal folks do not just launch into cussing fits. Failing the cussing-disorder test, I would advise him of our standards of conduct, and invite him to WATCH the rest of the match to see how gentlemen behaved themselves. So, to sum up: No, it is not by the letter on your stone tablets. No, it was not right for him to cuss the SO. and NO, you will probably not see that new shooter at another match. I make no judgement on how one sport treats this over another, just sounds like it was handled poorly by both sides. Sounds like a personality thing and a case of "respect my authoritay" , but hey maybe it's the way I'm reading it. edited to remove "broken gun". I have no idea why a guy would do that, but maybe he was just new and playing with all his toys. Edited March 28, 2007 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 For me its not the rules and his gun wasnt broke. its only about his swearing at the RO!! I would let him shoot if his gun broke ,or if he just wanted to use the other one. no issue at all..we all play nice ,dont we? Just dont think swearing at the RO is right and that is the only issue I would really be concerned with. no pitchfork...Just civil conduct This is only my opinion..and I dont argue with your points...I fully agree!! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I agree, no blessing out the guy running you. And where in the hell did I come up with a "broken gun"? I guess I figured that was the reason for the switch, only one that made sense to me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) Devils advocate, was the SO rude to him? I have shot plenty of matches were I have had a very rude SO or RO!!! I was told at a local match to be quite by an SO because I was talking while someone was shooting. He was not kidding! I was told by the same guy at a USPSA match to be quite. At this point I had enough of his crap and told him publicly. I won't use fowl language because of young kids being present (my Daughter) and it's not cool but, I was pretty vocal. I did keep a smile on face the whole time. Edited March 28, 2007 by MarkS_A18138 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos SC Shooter Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Devils advocate, was the SO rude to him? I have shot plenty of matches were I have had a very rude SO or RO!!! I was told at a local match to be quite by an SO because I was talking while someone was shooting. He was not kidding! I was told by the same guy at a USPSA match to be quite. At this point I had enough of his crap and told him publicly. I won't use fowl language because of young kids being present (my Daughter) and it's not cool but, I was pretty vocal. I did keep a smile on face the whole time. Was this just before someone was about to shoot or while they were actually shooting? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 50 feet away before they were shooting. SO had electronic ear muffs. I was talking to a shooter next to me both times. There was shooting in the bay right next to us! Our squad thought it was funny!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 maybe he was getting ready for area 6.......... actually..i would not have let him shoot it in the match,just to keep peace within the tribe, however,after all other shooters had shot that stage..then i would have taken the time and let him reshoot it.....as far as the cursing...well don't everybody in Ga say awe sh#t all the time?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I don't see the point of having rules if they are going to be ignored. Folks ignoring rules are why I don't shoot IDPA now. If he wanted to switch guns for no reason, he would be shooting for no score. If he wanted to shoot CDP, then that's what he should have shot. I'll keep quiet at a local match about tripe like that, but I won't take an active part in it. I don't really care what the rule is, I think it's pretty bold to take it upon yourself to speak for everyone at the match. If I was the MD, he would have been DQed for unsportsmanlike conduct without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) I can tell you what I would do. At a local match with a new shooter, I'd let the guy shoot. If that was the whole story. I would inform the shooter that what he wants to do is not sanctioned by the rule book and tell him the consequenses of his choice. But if he sweared or acted less than civil, well that is another story. He can shoot what ever stage another RO will allow, but he won't shoot mine. I don't volunteer my time working the match, ( I'd rather stand sround and BS with the other shooters, but we are always in need of ROs) to be chewed out by someone who is wrong and vulgar. Edited March 28, 2007 by John K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 No need to swear at the SO for doing his job. I would have sent him home to think about his negative attitude & he would have gotten a DNF on the stage and the match scored accordingly. Works for me. How about some common sense? If you'll notice, no one is really upset over the "switching a gun" thing. It's the "cursing out the SO to get your way" part that would earn him a trip home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I was told at a local match to be quite by an SO because I was talking while someone was shooting. He was not kidding! I was told by the same guy at a USPSA match to be quite. At this point I had enough of his crap and told him publicly. I won't use fowl language because of young kids being present (my Daughter) and it's not cool but, I was pretty vocal. If you've been told on two separate occasions, at two different matches, in two different sports, to be quiet, maybe that indicates there really is a problem in your volume control and choice of times to talk. Whatever the case, getting "pretty vocal" with an RO/SO is totally unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock3422 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Probably the easiest way to handle this is to explain the rule book regarding changing guns. Then, offer to allow him to reshoot the stage with the CDP gun after he shoots it with the SSP gun and everyone else is finished. If he insists on shooting the CDP gun before the SSP gun, he should be allowed to, but advised that his SSP score will include an FTDR for rehearsing the stage with the CDP gun. If he insists on only shooting with the CDP gun, he should be allowed to with a DNF. It is a local match and who really cares? Then, someone needs to have a blunt conversation about how he treats SOs. I know quite a few former SOs because it got to be too much trouble. If any of that logic doesn't get through, the MD needs to handle it. I know a few SO abusers who are officially no longer welcome. They are not missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 He's new ... next match tell him about his first post on the forum, and give him the www. to see it last year I found an old post about somthing well 1/2 of somthing I said at a match. = it was 1/2 of what i had said about how a comp works, & yada yada So ? did you hear all that was said about the gun switch or just part ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Clean out your locker, Thanks for the donation!!!! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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