Catfish Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 (edited) My club could hold about 30 matches a year. (if no snow, rain, sleet, or holidays gunk things up)... Ergo, we could hold approx 30 classifiers a year. However, I am under the belief that we can only submit 12 classifiers each year. Why? edited for crappy grammar... Edited February 27, 2007 by Catfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 (edited) Actually, you can submit 22.... If you run two Special Classifier matches a year w/ 6 classifiers in each... Edited to fix my crappy math... Edited February 27, 2007 by XRe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 (edited) I think that it is a (poor) method to keep clubs from skewing the mission count that determines how many nationals slots your club/section receives. A small club shooting multiple matches per month could submit more mission count than a much larger club only holding one match per month. Edited February 27, 2007 by L9X25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 The Nationals Classification Course Book reads "one classifier per month", unless you get permission (from your Section Coordinator) to run a Speical Classifier Match. (up to 2 Specials per year, IIRC) So...that is likely where the 12 per year idea comes from. But, I wonder if that is just not a poor wording thing ? Maybe they really meant one classifier per match ? Might be worth some clarification. I think that it is a (poor) method to keep clubs from skewing the mission count that determines how many nationals slots your club/section receives. I don't believe that to be the case here. Later, in the Nationals Classification Course Book it states that a club will only recieve activity credit (I assume they mean Mission Count) for 12 matches per year. So, they cover that seperately, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Years ago at the Club I was running right after limited division was created I used to run two matches. The regular monthly match and a specific Limited Divisions match. If you have the capability to run multiple matches break out the divisions for each match and have fun. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Norco runs 2 per month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Norco runs 2 per month. Both with classifiers...that count ? Do they both fall under the same organization ? (I know that some ranges will have more than one organization that runs matches out of that range.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Chuck, They run as 2 clubs. Gen X Ipsc and Norco Running Gun IPSC Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 The Nationals Classification Course Book reads "one classifier per month", unless you get permission (from your Section Coordinator) to run a Speical Classifier Match. (up to 2 Specials per year, IIRC)So...that is likely where the 12 per year idea comes from. But, I wonder if that is just not a poor wording thing ? Maybe they really meant one classifier per match ? Might be worth some clarification. I think that it is a (poor) method to keep clubs from skewing the mission count that determines how many nationals slots your club/section receives. I don't believe that to be the case here. Later, in the Nationals Classification Course Book it states that a club will only recieve activity credit (I assume they mean Mission Count) for 12 matches per year. So, they cover that seperately, it seems. This seems to take it back to square 1. I can understand having only 1 classifier per match, unless it's a special classifier match. However, wouldn't we want to encourage clubs to hold more than 1 match a month, if they can? I mean, if it were up to me, we'd be shooting a couple of USPSA matches a week! I see the same thing in the Mission Count area. If my club holds two matches a month that attract 30-40 shooters each match, shouldn't we get credit for that? Is this something that could be clarified at the upcoming BoD meeting in Dallas? Is it possible for John Q. USPSA member to attend the meeting and bring up a question like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I'm sitting here looking at our club's activity report for the year 2006. In limited, L-10 and open we maxed out our matches. The activity points awarded were 162.5, 74.75, and 165.75 respectively. The points are assigned for the number of shooters you have for those 12 matches. If your first 12 matches of the year are your low turn-out matches, you will get less activity credit, if you have a really big turnout for your first 12 matches, you get more. Our club shoots twice a month. Our shooters get the credit in their classes for their classifiers, but the clubs are on the short end of the stick after 12 matches. But you can game it. Hold 2 special classifiers as 2 of your first 12 matches. If you have 10 folks shooting, you actually get credit for 60 classifers and activity credit for that amount. So your section gets more Nationals slots. We won't do that, but it shows one of the weaknesses of the system. FWIW dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Is this something that could be clarified at the upcoming BoD meeting in Dallas? Is it possible for John Q. USPSA member to attend the meeting and bring up a question like this? You can certainly attend the meeting. Just get in touch with Dave Thomas to let him know you want to show up (there is a deadline, so they can get enough seats...but that has never been a problem in the past). I don't know that you can bring up an business, you'd just be at the meeting as an observer. But, you'd be right there with the BOD. You'd get to talk to them our of the meeting and such. As for asking...send an email to your Area Director or too USPSA...now. Let us know what you come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Chuck,They run as 2 clubs. Gen X Ipsc and Norco Running Gun IPSC Club. I knew that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Afiliate a second club within your home club. RUn 1st Sunday for one and 3rd Sunday for the other, (or any other mix of dates.) One big reason as I see it is to keep one club form taking all the venues. Club A runs 4 matches and the adjacent clubs have a smaller draw. Then of course there is the burn-out factor to coonsider as well. Just how many matches do you want to be responsible for? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Afiliate a second club within your home club. RUn 1st Sunday for one and 3rd Sunday for the other, (or any other mix of dates.)One big reason as I see it is to keep one club form taking all the venues. Club A runs 4 matches and the adjacent clubs have a smaller draw. Then of course there is the burn-out factor to coonsider as well. Just how many matches do you want to be responsible for? Jim Hi Jim - yes, we've heard about affiliating two clubs - but that's double the expense each year for club membership and paperwork and we'd rather not have to do that. There's no way in our situation here in north Texas that we can take all the venues - our section won't allow us (and I'm in complete agreement with it) to host matches on dates other clubs in our section are holding matches. Our club is responsible for at least 4 IDPA matches a month and from 2-4 USPSA matches a month as it is. Luckily, our members are great and are a huge help in running the matches. It is my opinion that if we're drawing shooters to our matches, the club should be able to turn in those classifiers and the section should get credit. I'm going to see if I can get to the BoD meeting this weekend... Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) My home range (Livingston Gun Club) actually runs 3 USPSA/IPSC programs out of it. We can therefore have a match 3 weekends out of the month, and it is easier to get new shooters classified. If you have the people, it is a wothwhile thing to do. Edited February 28, 2007 by Barrettone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azone41 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 We have two matches each month but we shoot the same classifier for both matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 There's a lot I don't know about the issues, but I have to say, one thing confuses me. I figured the primary purpose of running classifiers was to provide a way for members to get initial classifications and to update them as skills improved or deteriorated. As an unclassified shooter, I'd like to see as many classifiers as practical. Unfortunately, my club ran a special classifier just before I joined. I'm not sure if or when another is scheduled. To be honest, it's disturbing to realize that I'm looking at a minimum of 4 months before I can get my initial classification. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 There's a lot I don't know about the issues, but I have to say, one thing confuses me. I figured the primary purpose of running classifiers was to provide a way for members to get initial classifications and to update them as skills improved or deteriorated.As an unclassified shooter, I'd like to see as many classifiers as practical. Unfortunately, my club ran a special classifier just before I joined. I'm not sure if or when another is scheduled. To be honest, it's disturbing to realize that I'm looking at a minimum of 4 months before I can get my initial classification. Lee I'm sure there a few clubs not to far away to shoot with them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'm sure there a few clubs not to far away to shoot with them as well. I've got my fingers crossed. I asked about just that on the Florida Shooter's Network. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'm sure there a few clubs not to far away to shoot with them as well. I've got my fingers crossed. I asked about just that on the Florida Shooter's Network. Lee I have suggested MANY times to have the Thursday night match have some Classifiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I have suggested MANY times to have the Thursday night match have some Classifiers!!! That would be great, but I doubt it'll happen. The club typically has about 50 shooters and, according to the agreement with Markham, has to be broken down and off the range by 10:00. As you know, they kind of rush through the stages and, most times, are a lot more resistant to original thinking while shooting the stages. I still think that "gun unloaded on table" with no further direction, should have permitted me to put it there with the slide back. At any rate, it's a fun night for the members running the shoot as well as those just shooting. I'm not sure they'd be real receptive to running Classifiers in addition to everything else. A guy that stops in the gun shop I frequent has been trying to get me to drive over the west coast to shoot with them. Next time I see him, I'm going to get more details. I haven't checked, but there may be somebody running matches out of Trail Glades as well. I've just started looking. I'm going to shoot tomorrow and, if possible, Thursday. Will you make it either time? Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Afiliate a second club within your home club. RUn 1st Sunday for one and 3rd Sunday for the other, (or any other mix of dates.) One big reason as I see it is to keep one club form taking all the venues. Club A runs 4 matches and the adjacent clubs have a smaller draw. Then of course there is the burn-out factor to coonsider as well. Just how many matches do you want to be responsible for? Jim Hi Jim - yes, we've heard about affiliating two clubs - but that's double the expense each year for club membership and paperwork and we'd rather not have to do that. There's no way in our situation here in north Texas that we can take all the venues - our section won't allow us (and I'm in complete agreement with it) to host matches on dates other clubs in our section are holding matches. Our club is responsible for at least 4 IDPA matches a month and from 2-4 USPSA matches a month as it is. Luckily, our members are great and are a huge help in running the matches. It is my opinion that if we're drawing shooters to our matches, the club should be able to turn in those classifiers and the section should get credit. I'm going to see if I can get to the BoD meeting this weekend... Thx You mention that you run 2 USPSA matches a month now, sometimes four. The additional cost to your club would be $50 to affiliate and the cost of the classifers. You can call the first club whatever you currently do and call the other club some other name. Have a different contact person if needed. I see no problem with this. An example of how this could be already happening is a range with adequate bays runs a match and another club without a facility rents 5 bays each month to run their match. Just not a biggie to me. As to the slot awards, they go by mission count to your section. If your main club has two USPSA clubs, you'll net the mission count from both. I assume it is the same shooters each month. We have a similar but different situation here. Many of the locals are members of and work hard at two to four of the local clubs. We design, build, run, teardown and put-away up to three or four matches a month with largely the same crews. In our case there are multiple venues, but if one were lost and one of the other clubs had the space in their schedule, we would likely start up a "New" USPSA club to run in that time slot. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Jim - I hear what you're saying - but I still don't know why my existing club would have to spend $50 more each year in order to get the mission count that our club is already drawing in as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I still think that "gun unloaded on table" with no further direction, should have permitted me to put it there with the slide back. This coming from the guy who thinks we should be able to read the course designer's mind, and that gaming is cheating.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) I still think that "gun unloaded on table" with no further direction, should have permitted me to put it there with the slide back. This coming from the guy who thinks we should be able to read the course designer's mind, and that gaming is cheating.... Nope. You don't have to read anyone's mind. You just have to do what you know is right. My position was, and still is, that doing what you know is wrong, just because someone forgot to include it in the stage desciption, is not ethical, whether you get away with it or not. In this case, I saw the opportunity that others didn't. When I was asked if I understood the course of fire, I asked whether I could leave the slide back. As far as I know, there's no rule or understood standard for this. In my club PPC matches, magazine out and slide back is the definition of unloaded. I was told what was intended and, armed with the knowledge, I complied, just exactly as I suggested to others. Since you chose to bring it up, were you, by any chance, one of those that voted to shoot through snow fence that is designated as hard cover in the rules? Lee Edited March 1, 2007 by Lee Bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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