Stefano Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I need to make some changes in my trainig plan, and I'm serching help for "how to do". I am a Production - B class shooter, actually I shoot between 70% and 75%, and my biggest weakness is probably that I'm quite slow in movements. I'm long-limbed, 1,85 mt. tall, 85 Kg. weight I'm not referring to basic skills like draw, target acquisition, reloads, etc. but to the true and real "movements" we have to do in a tipical course of fire (entering/exiting shooting positions, exploding to another shooting position after fired from the last, running along a field course, entering/exiting from windows ... I shoot very accurate points (no D, no MISS, no N/S, and very-very few C per stage) but unfortunately I'm usually 6/7 seconds slower than GM's times (4/5 in a medium and 6/7 in a long course). Can anybody suggest to me how to gain a little bit more speed ? I must to shoot less accurate ? I have to do more physical training and exercises instead of live-fire training ? Thanks in advance ! Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Stefano, a couple of things will help. Especially in Production, I don't think sacrificing a bunch of accuracy in the sake of pure speed is the right thing to do. Here are some thoughts: - physical training for leg and core strength will help you get out of positions and run harder - working wind sprints and such will do the same, and will build cardio efficiency, too - working position exits and entries (including windows, boxes, etc), and shooting on the move will help you be more efficient at the beginning and ending of those speed bursts, and will help you cover ground while gaining points - working drills to improve your indexes will cut small chunks of time in many places across a course of fire - working getting into and out of awkward positions will help you accomplish those skills more quickly - pay attention to top shooters and see how they pick stages apart, and learn what you can about being efficient in attacking a stage Do the shooting drills dryfire and livefire.... Work work work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Loose 30lbs to 50lbs weight and this alone will get you some speed.. look how KC Eusebio's build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Watch video some of the top shooters, watch their feet especially, there is a method that is common to most and works best for most people. Most lower level shooters cross over with their legs leaving a position for example, VERY few of the top shooters do it. That alone makes a big difference, then you can glide into the next position and shoot the instant you get there instead of trying to make up that speed and crash into the next position and waste a second or two getting set up for the next shot. Moving fast is only part of it, being ready to shoot the very instant they are in position is a HUGE factor I see in how the best shooters beat the rest of us so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Stefano, a couple of things will help. Especially in Production, I don't think sacrificing a bunch of accuracy in the sake of pure speed is the right thing to do. Here are some thoughts:- physical training for leg and core strength will help you get out of positions and run harder - working wind sprints and such will do the same, and will build cardio efficiency, too - working position exits and entries (including windows, boxes, etc), and shooting on the move will help you be more efficient at the beginning and ending of those speed bursts, and will help you cover ground while gaining points - working drills to improve your indexes will cut small chunks of time in many places across a course of fire - working getting into and out of awkward positions will help you accomplish those skills more quickly - pay attention to top shooters and see how they pick stages apart, and learn what you can about being efficient in attacking a stage Do the shooting drills dryfire and livefire.... Work work work XRe, thanks so much for the tips ! Can you suggest a simple but useful live-fire exercise that I can setup for my trainings sessions ? Regarding to dry-fire training i do it a lot (daily, for 30/45 minutes ...) but the problem is that at hove I've not great possibility of working on sprints and speed burst. Recently I've found the way of doing "shooting on the move" using my biggest room, but at slow pace: for quicker sprint I have to work out of home ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 HSMITH has some good points. If physical conditioning was the only answer, Rob Leatham and Angus Hobdell would not of been number 1 and 2 respectively at the 2006 USPSA production nationals ! You may want to look into some training with a GM. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Can you suggest a simple but useful live-fire exercise that I can setup for my trainings sessions ? Burkett's 12 box drill (on the "How To Practice" DVD) is killer for working box entry/exit. You can do it with just two or three boxes, and then move the boxes to different positions... There's some good stuff in Saul's "Perfect Practice" book for these kinds of things, too. Just be creative - keep the targets simple so the setup and reset are quick, and then set yourself up to work the skill you want - either put up a port, or put down boxes, or... Regarding to dry-fire training i do it a lot (daily, for 30/45 minutes ...) but the problem is that at hove I've not great possibility of working on sprints and speed burst. You don't have to actually have a gun in your hands to work sprints and speed, ya know... Physical conditioning skills can be worked anywhere you can workout... You just need to tie it back in to the shooting stuff to make sure you're entering/exiting, and shooting on the move in a smooth fashion.... Recently I've found the way of doing "shooting on the move" using my biggest room, but at slow pace: for quicker sprint I have to work out of home ... You can also dryfire at the range, BTW.... Work what you can at home. Work the physical fitness w/o a gun. Then tie it all together in livefire practice. ChuckS and HSMITH are recognizing that physical fitness is not the be-all/end-all - but it doesn't hurt Any advantage you can get is an advantage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Keep your gun up high. This is usually worth a second or more on each stage. If its a sprint run with swinging arms if you want but for our 5 yard or less movements, keep the gun up near your face. Try it on a timer for proof. I think if you post a video of yourself there would be places for improvement everybody could help with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Guys, thanks a lot to ALL of you ! Here's the good place to find a bunch on TOP QUALITY tips ! Regarding to watching Toip Shooters Video, recently I've bought the 3GM Dvd from Saul Kirsch: the best I've ever seen (in my opinion).. Another good exercise to do is that one in Steve Anderson's sample (I've pre-ordered the book, but it's not jet arrived ...): that one withe the 3 shooting boxes and the 2 visual barriers ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 TGO says "its not how fast you get there, its how fast you get there ready to shoot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Stefano, I have a couple of questions: Are you reloading during your movement between shooting arrays/ports/boxes etc? Is your reload completed before your arrive at your distinatioin? What is your standing reload time? One shot, reload, one shot. If my standing reload is 1.5 seconds and the distance I am traveling between boxes takes 2.5 seconds, I expect to have my reload completed and gun up. Is your reload completed and are you ready to shoot when you enter the box? If you are moving from right to left, which foots enters the box first? Is it always the same foot? I have seen guys that prefer to have their right foot down and are shooting as soon as their back foot (left) leaves the ground. Matt talks about entering with the left foot, the toes angling towards the target, while bringing the right foot around. All the GM/M I have seen shot, do not take an extra step inside the box. Extra steps cost you time. I like Matt's drills alot. Try this one: Try setting up four targets in a line - right to left, two boxes and a start box( they form a triangle). Measure the time to the from start box to first box, shoot two targets and run to the other box and shoot two. The same but run back to the first box and shoot two then back to the second box. (You can do this with two targets and save bullets, it is just as effective) Set the boxes so they are about three seconds from each other, that could be 5 feet or 20 feet just depends on how fast you are. The idea is lay a foundation down, get your mind and body in sync, and keep track of your times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) Stefano, I have a couple of questions: Are you reloading during your movement between shooting arrays/ports/boxes etc? Is your reload completed before your arrive at your distinatioin? What is your standing reload time? One shot, reload, one shot. If my standing reload is 1.5 seconds and the distance I am traveling between boxes takes 2.5 seconds, I expect to have my reload completed and gun up. Is your reload completed and are you ready to shoot when you enter the box? My standing reload time is actually 1,4/1,5 sec. Yes, I always do mag-changes during the movement: if the movement il critical due to a safety angle, if possible I make the reload before starting running, so I can better control the muzzle direction of my gun. quote name='Mistral404' date='Feb 12 2007, 09:02 PM' post='512535'] If you are moving from right to left, which foots enters the box first? Is it always the same foot? I have seen guys that prefer to have their right foot down and are shooting as soon as their back foot (left) leaves the ground. Matt talks about entering with the left foot, the toes angling towards the target, while bringing the right foot around. All the GM/M I have seen shot, do not take an extra step inside the box. Extra steps cost you time. I always enter the box with my leading foot: right foot coming to the left, left foot coming to the right. I like Matt's drills alot. Try this one: Try setting up four targets in a line - right to left, two boxes and a start box( they form a triangle). Measure the time to the from start box to first box, shoot two targets and run to the other box and shoot two. The same but run back to the first box and shoot two then back to the second box. (You can do this with two targets and save bullets, it is just as effective) Set the boxes so they are about three seconds from each other, that could be 5 feet or 20 feet just depends on how fast you are. The idea is lay a foundation down, get your mind and body in sync, and keep track of your times. Yeh, I've read somewhere this drill ... It looks great ! Next time I'll be at the range I want to try it, adding a window in the center, between the two leading boxes ... Mistral, thanks a lot for the tips ! Edited February 13, 2007 by Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I'm certainly no M or GM, but I train hard to achieve that status on a daily basis. Cardio workouts have helped me tremendously...it builds leg strength end endurance, and allows me to run without being out of breath. What I am focusing on now is getting my shots off the instant I enter the box, as opposed to entering the box, setting up, then shooting. DVD's are an amazing resource for training on this topic. Matt Burkett's "How To Shoot Faster" DVD is excellent, as well as 3GM. It sounds like you are driven to succeed, and that is half the battle! Don't underestimate the value of dryfiring as well...you can do more than work on static setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) I'm certainly no M or GM, but I train hard to achieve that status on a daily basis. Cardio workouts have helped me tremendously...it builds leg strength end endurance, and allows me to run without being out of breath. What I am focusing on now is getting my shots off the instant I enter the box, as opposed to entering the box, setting up, then shooting.DVD's are an amazing resource for training on this topic. Matt Burkett's "How To Shoot Faster" DVD is excellent, as well as 3GM. It sounds like you are driven to succeed, and that is half the battle! Don't underestimate the value of dryfiring as well...you can do more than work on static setups. What kind of training exercise are you doing to build leg strenth and cardio endurance ? Unfortunarely I cant' do a lot of running due to a little problem to my right knee ... Bicycle (or home-cyclette) can be good ? Regarding dry-fire ... no fear, I do it a lot ! I've used in these last two years a Tanfoglio Stock Custom (and probably after 1 million of "click" I've broken on it 3 triggers springs making dry-fire ... ): now - thanks to Vince's "gift" - I was obliged to put it ino the draw, and I use the "old" Tanfoglio Stock , where I've just broken another trigger-spring ... Eheheheh ... dry-fire is good for improvement but a killer for these little parts .. Edited February 13, 2007 by Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Loose 30lbs to 50lbs weight and this alone will get you some speed..look how KC Eusebio's build? Wow, this is a tough crowd. The guy is 6' 1" and weighs 187#. To get faster drop 30 to 50 lbs? In my case, they need to cremate me to get me below 200#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I don't think Stefano needs to lose weight... Hell, man, I'm 5'9" and weigh 215#, so... Fitness wise, increasing leg and core body strength will make a big difference for him (as they would for anyone playing this game...). Cardio fitness is a good thing, too, obviously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 First work on exploding out of the movement. adn reloading while doing this.... mentally leaving faster ( as SOOON as the shot breaks) is huge. sometimes even rolling out of the position depending on how dificult the shots are. as for getting out of position faster if you have bad knees i'd suggest working on things to build those muscles maybe slow reps as opposed to running.. Footwork drills " the ladder drill" is great for foot speed. I don't know about your lower body flexibility but the more the better. Those who say "lose weight u'll be faster" well not really. not unless you have to proper training and work on it. I was a 240 pound B class shooter and a 270 pound GM ... working my way back down this winter yes your quicker on your feet. but the shooting skill makes up a lot of difference in seeing and knowing what you can shoot. I second the position work.. it's crutial to be shooting as soon as possible. these are all timing issues. Do the drills above and any you can find. then let experience tell you what to use where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 +1 to the flexibility work that Steve mentions... Steve, as far as working on bad knees, and general leg musculature, squats done purely with body weight (ie, no free weights) seem to be a good point to start with. Hell, I've been doing them for 3/4 of a year, now, and they still kick my butt just doing 50 of them. HUGE difference in leg strength, though.... And, because you're supporting your weight and keeping your balance, it seems to work the muscles all around the different joints, so it strengthens the whole knee and ankle, etc... Then I work on sprints for speed. I want to start getting into ladder drills and such - haven't had time to work out the ladder, yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 what is the Ladder drill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) What kind of training exercise are you doing to build leg strenth and cardio endurance ?Unfortunarely I cant' do a lot of running due to a little problem to my right knee ... Bicycle (or home-cyclette) can be good ? Stefano, I jog, and although my degree is not in sports medicine, things like elliptical machines, stationary biking, and swimming will be good cardio workouts without causing too much strain on your knee. Yoga and pilates will work wonders on your overall flexability and looseness. Edited February 14, 2007 by Pharaoh Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Steve, as far as working on bad knees, and general leg musculature, squats done purely with body weight (ie, no free weights) seem to be a good point to start with. Or for those with really bad knees (yup, the ole limp-a-long cassidy syndrome), try something like a "total-gym". Got one shortly after my left knee surgery and so far its helped me avoid cutting on the right knee. It allows doing the squats with less than full body weight and move up the difficulty level as the knees strengthen. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Guys, thanks a LOT, again, to ALL of you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glock17w Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I think the physical part is important. I also think watching top shooters is an excellent idea. Todd Jarrett moves like a cat. Also learn from watching other top shooters. You are in Europe. Maybe you can check on training session from Saul Kirsch or Eric Grauffel. Just a thought. glock17w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) I think the physical part is important. I also think watching top shooters is an excellent idea. Todd Jarrett moves like a cat. Also learn from watching other top shooters. You are in Europe. Maybe you can check on training session from Saul Kirsch or Eric Grauffel. Just a thought.glock17w Last year I've organized and joined a course with Eric Grauffel, at my shooting range in Arnasco, quite near to Genoa, where I live. Guys, the course was absolutely exellent, and I strongly recommend it to everibody, but unfortunately it was the "level 1" course, and the skills I need to learn now are matter for Eric's upper level courses (lev.2 & 3). Now I'm working on it: it would be great to have again Eric & GG with us, for the second (and third) part of the lesson ... Edited February 14, 2007 by Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 It allows doing the squats with less than full body weight Wow, that's cool, Bill. Didn't realize those machines would allow for reduced body weight exercises... Excellent! I also think watching top shooters is an excellent idea. Todd Jarrett moves like a cat. I'll warn you about something here... I agree with glock17w that observing the top shooters will really help you a bunch, especially if you learn through osmosis... However, don't get hung up on trying to move "just like so-and-so". If you don't have their body type, with their proportion of fast-twitch muscles, their conditioning, and their personal temperment, its never going to happen. Instead, focus on what they do, and why they do it (ask questions, if you're in person - after they've shot the stage). You don't have to move as snappily as TJ or TT to shoot and move as quickly as they do... You do have to have the shooting skills, the stage breakdown skills, and the movement skills together to get there, however... Heck, if guys like Robbie or Taran can beat the small, skinny, snappy looking guys on a regular basis, I'd say you don't have to move "like a cat".... If you do, I might as well quit right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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