Ssp Better Than Esp For Beginner?

[dlcrouch]

i'm trying to decide between an M&P and XD9 for IDPA, HD and (maybe) CCW. All other things being equal, should the fact I can shoot SSP with the M&P influence my decision? Is SSP easier for a beginner?

[yoshidaex]

not 100% familiar with which class the M&P can compete in but if it allows you to play in either ssp or esp that would be the better choice for the economy minded shooter. both classes are at 125 power factor and start you off with a max round count of 10+1. small mods to your gun here and there will determine which class you end up in (weight, grip texturing, magwell, etc, etc) if i wanted to stick with one gun, all for the sake of familiarity, i would go with a box stock Glock 21. its good for SSP,ESP and CDP (since its a 45) .

[dirtypool40]

Don't worry about finding the small pond or easy division and then a gun. Find a gun you like, and shoot it.

If I were starting out I would do just what I did before; go out with what I had (a Sig 226) and the rig I had (duty rig from academy) and just have fun while I learned.

Later I graduated to a Dillon "LTD" holster, then a 1911 and finally to IPSC Limited class and high caps.

You'll hear it said here ad nauseum; it's the indian not the arrow.

I think the M&P is a fine gun and would have no problem shooting it in IDPA, or USPSA Production. Get one, enjoy it, wear that sucker out.

[Greg Jones]

I would agree that you should find an IDPA legal gun that you like best and shoot whatever division it is legal in. I personally like the M&P and the XD, but I don't own either one. If I had to pick between the two, I personally would select the M&P because Springfield, to my knowledge, will still not sell XD parts. If the XD breaks and it is not a simple fix, you have to ship it back for repairs.

[Jane]

You can use an SSP gun to shoot ESP when you want to, so you can get classified in two divisions with one gun (although you'll need to shoot the classifier match twice).

SSP classification times are easier than ESP. Good for grandbaggers, bad for sandbaggers

[Singlestack Wonder]

You could shoot in either division. ESP lends itself to the single action trigger crowd.

[Greg Jones]

You could shoot in either division. ESP lends itself to the single action trigger crowd.

The M&P would be good to go for either division. It would be ESP only for the XD9.

[Duane Thomas]

IDPA has always been separated equipment-wise into two philosophical categories, I think. SSP is the venue for basic guns where you're limited in modifications to sights, a trigger job, a roll of skateboard tape and not much else. ESP and CDP - though technically you can shoot other guns in them - are primarily venues for "art guns" i.e. custom 1911s where we're allowed to do all the things we love doing to custom 1911s.

There's a certain attraction to taking just a basic gun and beating up on the guys with the spendy 1911s - and I've done it. But as a beginning IDPAer with an XD or M&P, honestly I think you'd be better off in SSP. Not that it really makes that much difference in the overall scheme of things, but at least you'll have the mental comfort of knowing you're going up against people armed with a roughly equivalent level of technology.

[Brazos SC Shooter]

I'll throw my two cents in here.

I started shooting in February of 2006 in SSP. I shoot an HK USP .40 Fullsize. It has been incredibly reliable as you would expect from a good service gun. I chose to compete with the same gun I carry. I good used HK can be found for $500 in .40 and possibly cheaper in 9mm. The HK can also run cocked and locked like a 1911 so you can use a .40 in both SSP or ESP. Should you choose a .45 ACP model you could run it in SSP and CDP.

The bottom line is the shooter makes the gun more than the gun makes the shooter and with good solid fundamentals you will be competitive regardless of your choice.

One comment about the M&P that I have heard, so take it with a grain of salt, is the slide lock release is akward and difficult to activate. When checking this particular gun out I would lock the slide back and see how easy and quick you are able to release the slide to battery.

In this particular sport slide lock reloads are the fastest option so you will want to make sure the guns works well for your hand/finger size and you can do this easily.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Texas HK shooter

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: In IDPA you are classified into different groups according to your classifier scores so you are shooting against shooters who are at the same level of skill as you are. What I am trying to say is that it does not matter if you shoot SSP or ESP. It is easier to classify in SSP than ESP but only by a little bit. If I was you I would start with a 9mm since the factory ammo is alot less expensive. I would also find a pistol that parts and magazines don't cost an arm and a leg. I would also look at web sights for the different pistols you are looking at to see how much info is out there about them. Lastly practice alot and have fun. Hope this helps. Thanks Eric

[Singlestack Wonder]

It would be ESP only for the XD9

You are absolutlely correct. My error. Since the XD is classified as having a Single Action trigger, it cannot compete is SSP division.

[Steve Moneypenny]

I would go M&P it's more adjustable to you, and you can shoot either division with it. Personally I like to compete against my friends. It does seem most people are shooting SSP any more. So that's where i'll be for nationals next year.

[Jim Watson]

The BEST gun to start out with is whatever you have around the house that fits the rules. Or even not fits the rules, I will cut a beginner a good deal of slack on detail gun specifications. Had one duck hunter who only had one handgun, a 6" revolver.

If you have to buy new to get in the game at all, I would say to get something for SSP, in this case the Plastic M&P. You can always modify the gun into ESP or buy another, this isn't a life commitment.

[Singlestack Wonder]

I would go M&P it's more adjustable to you, and you can shoot either division with it.

See my post above. The M&P is not legal for SSP division due to it's "single action" trigger.

[darrenk75b]

I would go M&P it's more adjustable to you, and you can shoot either division with it.

See my post above. The M&P is not legal for SSP division due to it's "single action" trigger.

The M&P is similar to the Glock in that the trigger pull finishes cocking the striker. It is generically classified as a DAO pistol, therefore it can compete in SSP.

Edited January 5, 2007 by darrenk75b

[kdmoore]

Yea, M&P's are competing in SSP.

Dude, given the gun is for HD and CCW, the division it competes in would be the LEAST important deciding factor.

Both are fine firearms. Pick the one that you think is more dependable, better for carry, you shoot well and then think on the divisions. I put shooting well so far down as I believe that you can take any gun, put 5-10K competition rounds thru it and be VERY proficient regardless of the gun.

As for slide releases, here's a warning. First off, I think releasing the slide with the support hand as you regrip is best. IMO, all releases are basically equal in this technique.

If you do want to test the release, it's not a good test using an empty mag. It's noticably harder to release the slide with the mag pushing the release up. Maybe the gunstore would let you load a few snapcaps?

[richardschennberg]

The gun you already have and are most proficient with is the easiest for a beginner. If that gun happens to qualify for SSP, then your competition has the same equipment limitations as you. If your hand fits a 1911 or Springfield XD, you can shoot CDP (.45ACP only) or ESP (all other calibers). With an EAA Witness or CZ-75 without a safe decocker, you could elect to shoot ESP so you can start "cocked and locked" (round chambered, hammer fully cocked, safety on). Some guns like several Taurus models have a combined decocker/thumb safety so you can start hammer down (SSP) or cocked and locked (ESP).

[JD40]

There's a certain attraction to taking just a basic gun and beating up on the guys with the spendy 1911s - and I've done it. But as a beginning IDPAer with an XD or M&P, honestly I think you'd be better off in SSP. Not that it really makes that much difference in the overall scheme of things, but at least you'll have the mental comfort of knowing you're going up against people armed with a roughly equivalent level of technology.

I hate taking my custom sti 2011 and getting my ass handed to me by some one shooting a glock. There is a guy from here in North Texas (Brett Thomas) that loves to take his glock 34 and beat up on 1911's. Not only does he like to beat up on 1911's he also likes to win HOA in every major idpa match he shoots. What ever you pick buy lots of ammo and spend time at the range.

[Albert]

I would go M&P it's more adjustable to you, and you can shoot either division with it.

See my post above. The M&P is not legal for SSP division due to it's "single action" trigger.

Just for clarification, which is it for the M&P? OK for SSP division or not. I get the distinction made on the XD (although I think it's silly-let XDs play in SSP!) to only compete in ESP but this is the first I've heard that the M&P is not allowed in ESP. Can anyone else qualify that statement? I thought the M&P is basically the same to the glock with a few enhancements, especially to the grip.

If I started today in IDPA, IMO, I'd go with the M&P in .40S&W and start off in SSP and also play in ESP as you could download the .40S&W.

[Duane Thomas]

I don't believe anyone said the M&P can't play in ESP. It can be used either SSP or ESP, your choice.

See my post above. The M&P is not legal for SSP division due to it's "single action" trigger.

I believe this is a typo, and the poster meant to say "XD" instead of "M&P".

But as a beginning IDPAer with an XD or M&P, honestly I think you'd be better off in SSP.

Now there's a mistake, and it was mine. SSP or ESP for the M&P; ESP only for the XD. (Don't you just love all these acronyms?)

I get the distinction made on the XD (although I think it's silly-let XDs play in SSP!)

I don't really think it's silly. Thing is, the XD trigger system, while out-of-the-box it's no great shakes trigger pulls-wise, can be smithed to the point it rivals a 1911. So yeah, while it seems more like a double action out-of-the-box, the potential is there to make it de facto a custom 1911 in SSP. And I don't think that's something that anyone wants.

[Albert]

I get the distinction made on the XD (although I think it's silly-let XDs play in SSP!)

I don't really think it's silly. Thing is, the XD trigger system, while out-of-the-box it's no great shakes trigger pulls-wise, can be smithed to the point it rivals a 1911. So yeah, while it seems more like a double action out-of-the-box, the potential is there to make it de facto a custom 1911 in SSP. And I don't think that's something that anyone wants.

Thanks Duane, I had no idea the XD's trigger could be smithed to that level. In that case I'm glad they're only good for IDPA's ESP division.

[Duane Thomas]

Yer welcome.