Trigger Gauge

[KentG]

Im trying to figure out how so many people who dont use a trigger gauge can say with confidence how heavy thier trigger is. Im sure its possible to get close but not a true reading.

I have a Lyman electronic gauge and find it to be different from what people have claimed to be thier trigger weight.

What are all of the factors that affect trigger weight and how its measured and if its possible for a "felt/percieved" weight to be vastly different from a measured weight.

IF I ask a gunsmith to set a trigger at 3 pounds whats the odds Im gonna get a gauged weight or a "felt" weight?

[L9X25]

I read an article where the author claimed that the "stock" 1911 came from the factory with a trigger break under 2 lbs. Much later in the article it became aparrent that he was measuring the weight to break the shot, not including the take-up weight, as the trigger weight. If you have 3lbs of take-up and 2 lbs of "break", that makes for a 5lb trigger in my book.

I will admit that there are profound differences in the perceived "feel" of trigger weight and the raw numbers do not tell the entire story. For example, a trigger with 1 lb of take-up and 2 lbs of "break" (3 lbs total) will often feel heavier than a trigger set with 3 lbs of take-up and a 1 lb break (4lbs total). Your perception often ignores the take-up weight as you concentrate on the feel of the "break". YMMV

[raz-0]

From my experience after purchasing a trigger pull guage, you simply cannot tell trigger pull by feel acurately beyond your personal preference.

The only triggers i called right were light ones that both broke clean and smooth at 2.5lbs. The rest I was off depending on how smooth the trigger pull was. The smoother the pull, the more likely I was to underestimate trigger pull.

[IronEqualizer]

hmmmmmm......so my 1.5oz jewel trigger on my benchrest rifle may be heavier than what I paid for. If you've never shot one before you would be amazed how heavy that trigger feels after a few hundred rounds.

[Flexmoney]

I read an article where the author claimed that the "stock" 1911 came from the factory with a trigger break under 2 lbs. Much later in the article it became aparrent that he was measuring the weight to break the shot, not including the take-up weight, as the trigger weight. If you have 3lbs of take-up and 2 lbs of "break", that makes for a 5lb trigger in my book.

Am I the only one that didn't make sense out of that ?

[RIIID]

I have 4 different gauges, the Lyman electronic gauge doesn't read well below 3#, a RCBS spring gauge which reads very accurate, I can't recall the name of the 3rd spring gauge but it is the "the judge" but doesn't work well with some trigger types(it is adjustable), and the 4th is the old nra dead weight gauge again doesn't work well with some triggers. I always recheck the first three with the dead weight one. The dead weight one was check with a certified scale to make sure the discs are correct. Some day I'm going to make discs in incriments of ounces and have a starter rig at 1#. I use the RCBS scale the most. One can't trust a pull gauge with out double checking it out.

Rich

[L9X25]

I read an article where the author claimed that the "stock" 1911 came from the factory with a trigger break under 2 lbs. Much later in the article it became aparrent that he was measuring the weight to break the shot, not including the take-up weight, as the trigger weight. If you have 3lbs of take-up and 2 lbs of "break", that makes for a 5lb trigger in my book.

Am I the only one that didn't make sense out of that ?

Flex,

What I was trying to convey (poorly) was that the author claimed that the trigger "break" weight excluded the force necessary to prep the trigger until it reached the sear. In essence, he subtracted the take-up weight from the total weight to get the "break" weight and climed that as the trigger pull weight.

Does that make more sense?

Leo

Edited December 1, 2006 by L9X25

[Flexmoney]

The force need to prep the sear...has to be less than the force need to break.

All we to look at is max force. I'm not seeing where adding and subtracting factor in ?

We have a take-up weight and a break weight. The break weight will be higher than the take-up.

[unclez]

I've always thought that if you have 2#'s of take-up and 3#'s to break then you have a 3# trigger. I've also never seen the take-up pull be more than the sear break but maybe there is such a beast out there.

Zack

[Micah]

More disturbing is the inconsistancy in measuring trigger pull in Glocks. Heaven help match directors if a minimum trigger pull is mandated in Production

Back on topic, there is certainly more in consistancy of trigger pull that makes a trigger smooth than overall weight, IMHO.

[XD Niner]

Flex is absolutely correct. It would not be possible for the force needed to prep the sear to be greater than that required to break the shot. In practice, it takes very little force on my triggers to take up the slack and prep the sear. I suspect it is a fraction of a pound.

Repeatability of a measurement of the force required to be applied to a trigger to break the shot will be critical if a rule for a minimum trigger force is passed. The reality is that given the compounnd curve geometry of many triggers, the inability to apply the hook to the same point every time, and the inconsistent readings among pull gauges such a rule would be uneforceable.

[Too_Slow]

The way that I read Leo's reply was that it was 3 lbs to prep the trigger and an ADDITIONAL 2 lbs to break the shot. There by making it a total of a 5 lb trigger.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Too_Slow

[L9X25]

The way that I read Leo's reply was that it was 3 lbs to prep the trigger and an ADDITIONAL 2 lbs to break the shot. There by making it a total of a 5 lb trigger.

That is exactly what I was trying to convey. I am not sure if they were having difficulty understanding what I was trying to say or just disagreeing with the author (as I do too).

[kevin c]

More disturbing is the inconsistancy in measuring trigger pull in Glocks. Heaven help match directors if a minimum trigger pull is mandated in Production

I asked Ralph how to tweak my 2# drop in kit to get to three pounds, and he told me that, depending on where on the trigger face the gauge's trigger bar was put, it already was three pounds.

[Joe D]

I understand exactly what he was saying. When I shot on the Army Bullseye team we used guns that had a heavy take up but light release. Made a huge difference at the 50 yd line.

Most folks measure the Glock trigger at the tip.

[Allgoodhits]

I think some of the confusion on trigger weight is as follows, and it came about when trigger weights were used. If you will, a "trigger weight" is a go no-go gauge which measures by weight with a pass-fail test. A spring or electronic gauge is a measuring device as it has the ability to determine somewhat infinite variation within it's means.

Example: The traditional "trigger weights" were simply that, weights added to a lifting rod. A trigger which "holds" two pounds is not the same as a trigger which "breaks" at two pounds. These are often confused today, since there spring gauges and electronic gauges.

Taking a gun's trigger pressure reading with an accurate electronic gauge which reads two pounds on the trigger at hammer time, will then not hold a two pound weight. The quality of the "trigger" and the "skill" of the smith determine how soon after the hold requirement the trigger breaks, and more importantly how consistent the difference from press to press.

MJ