Single Stack, Looks Like Sti Is Interested

[bgary]

Back when he was pondering whether or not to add it as a production item (May '06), Dave Skinner described it as:

"A “lower end” (in price) 1911 built with many high quality STI parts, but assembled “off shore”. It’ll be .45ACP (what else?) only, unramped bushing barrel, full length guide rod, single sided thumb safety, and Parkerized. It’s name is to be the “Spartan”. "

B

[GringoPerdido]

That price is awesome.

I wish it was California ''legal''.

+1 !

[rubberneck]

Back when he was pondering whether or not to add it as a production item (May '06), Dave Skinner described it as:

"A “lower end” (in price) 1911 built with many high quality STI parts, but assembled “off shore”. It’ll be .45ACP (what else?) only, unramped bushing barrel, full length guide rod, single sided thumb safety, and Parkerized. It’s name is to be the “Spartan”. "

B

Many but not all the parts are STI.

[TxD]

Back when he was pondering whether or not to add it as a production item (May '06), Dave Skinner described it as:

"A “lower end” (in price) 1911 built with many high quality STI parts, but assembled “off shore”. It’ll be .45ACP (what else?) only, unramped bushing barrel, full length guide rod, single sided thumb safety, and Parkerized. It’s name is to be the “Spartan”. "

B

Many but not all the parts are STI.

The guns are built by Armscor in the P.I. Frame, slides, and barrel are Armscor.

Fire control parts are STI.

This is my understanding. Perhaps Ivan can shed some light.

I am frequently wrong.

Edited November 28, 2006 by TxD

[mcoliver]

The Spartan's frame, slide and barrel are made by Armscor. While the rest of the small parts are STI. The rear sight is LPA (I think).

Haven't shot one yet but I hope I do soon. You guys are getting it at better prices than us back here in th Phils.

Edit: TxD has way faster typing speed than I am.

Edited November 28, 2006 by mcoliver

[shred]

I dunno about MIM. I do know the one I played with shot really well and the barrel fit was 'done right' in the words of a much better 1911-smith than I. It's a little looser than a $1200 1911, but you can buy two for that price.

[MarkS_A18138]

It will make an awesome starter pistol. But watch out for the new .40 S&W from Taurus coming in Jan. I have shot the 45 and it was very nice. I suspect the slide and frame for the STI and the Taurus look a lot a like. I would hate to be Kimber or Colt! Please no one give me you get what you pay for. I have shot a Kimber all year! Cost 700.00 plus shipping for used pistol! Shot it once and had Carlos install a new Schumann barrel and all extreme fire group with an sti trigger and DK hammer. Would have been nice to start with the Spartan or the Taurus and save a couple hundred up front!!!!

[Precision40]

I dunno about MIM. I do know the one I played with shot really well and the barrel fit was 'done right' in the words of a much better 1911-smith than I. It's a little looser than a $1200 1911, but you can buy two for that price.

Did you happen to notice if it has a beveled magwell?

[shred]

Nope.. I have a vague memory it did have a slight bevel, but I could be wrong. Nothing a few minutes with a file won't fix in any case.

[Eager]

I'm afraid I'm not impressed.

This is an Armscor (Philippean) gun with STI slide cuts and some STI parts. It doesn't have what makes STI guns like the Trojan great. Doesn't have the frame/slide/barrel fit that makes the Trojan worth buying over other guns. Nor does it have the undercut triggerguard nor the flat top of the Trojan. The STI parts are the least thing I like about the Trojan. Some are MIM. Other than the STI slide cuts and parts, isn't this just a Pilippean 1911. If so why not tout the greatness of the Rock Island or Dan Wesson?

[Rocket35]

STI is also including Single Stack in their contingency program already.

[Merlin Orr]

For those Eager to discount this gun I would suggest an actual inspection and testing of it previous to calling it crap. National origin in itself does not make a product inferior.

[shred]

The two I've played with both only had a very small amount of slide to frame play, and the one I shot put 5 shots into one black splat only a few inches across on the steel plate at 50 yards. I don't particularly like the chromed barrel and the lack of ambi safties, but it's well worth it.

[kranzjdw]

i love that pistol and for the price it is great. im going to my sti dealer on monday asking him to order one for me.

[robomanusa]

I wouldnt mind having a hardchromed version...for the initial price tag I don't think you can go wrong.

[Eager]

For those Eager to discount this gun I would suggest an actual inspection and testing of it previous to calling it crap. National origin in itself does not make a product inferior.

I did not call it crap nor berate it's country of origin. Yet I don't hear any details as to why this gun is expected to be so great, nor that it is anything more than an Armscor/Rock Island/Charles Daly with different cosmetics and a few STI parts (some of which are MIM) sprinkled in. I haven't heard STI claim they have done anything to approach the barrel/slide/frame fit that make Trojans and other single stack STIs worth buying, along with distiguishing features like a great out of box trigger, flat top, and undercut triggerguard. Armscor/Rock Island/Charles Daly guns are already available. Do you advocate them? How will (other than cosmetics, and a few STI parts) the Spartan differ from Armscor/Rock Island/Charles Dalys?

Edited December 4, 2006 by Eager

[shred]

Yet I don't hear any details as to why this gun is expected to be so great, nor that it is anything more than an Armscor/Rock Island/Charles Daly with different cosmetics and a few STI parts (some of which are MIM) sprinkled in.

Uh, groups at 50 yards?

Or, maybe this:

All Spartan internal parts are shipped to Armscor from the STI plant in Texas and a special division, personally headed by Armscor’s master gunsmith, Arnel Bernardo, does the fitting. Bernardo is the father of Armscor’s top-of-the-line Medallion series.

or maybe everybody that's actually handled one is a shill for STI, you never know.

Which parts do you believe are MIM?

[Eager]

Look, I like STI. That's the whole point. I'm just not so sure about Armscor.

[Loves2Shoot]

LOL, it shot a ragged hole and was BETTER fit than the last couple Trojans I've re-worked.

One of the guys that got a Trojan recently through me was there for the test firing and he also though it was beeter fit than his Trojan. Hmmm.

It is a basic 1911, but for the price it is worth the $550 I got them for.

[bountyhunter]

Now this is what I call wanting to get in the game!!!

VERY NICE entry level Single Stack

It looks exactly like my Trojan except it has a different front sight and a cheaper hammer.

You can bet that "introductory price" will take off like a cruise missile as soon as they start shipping them.

Why would STI sell it's guns for a lower price than Springfield and Kimber sell their junk?

I played with an early one a week or so ago. In that price range they'll be hard to beat. They may be a little hard to find for a while, so grab one if you want one.

Can you compare and contrast it with the Trojan? Why the difference in price? Is a comparably configured Trojan twice the gun the Spartan is?

My Trojan (which is about six years old) is hand fitted and even has individual's marks engraved on the slide, barrel and frame. I suspect that at this price, it is impossible to have their gunsmith's spend that much time on each gun.

For those Eager to discount this gun I would suggest an actual inspection and testing of it previous to calling it crap. National origin in itself does not make a product inferior.

That's true, but it is the gunsmith fitting that makes the difference IMHO. .... and I suspect they won't be going to the Phillipines.

[Merlin Orr]

With all due respect.

Has anyone who has ..ahh.. "reservations" about this gun actually handled one...? I am not the best qualified guy here to make hard and fast statements about the quality..or lack thereof - of a gun. I am qualified to say I have personally handled this particular gun and in "my" considered opinion it is an excellent buy for the money - or a resonable buy at twice the money. I am sure there are people here on this forum who have owned more SS guns than I have....but...I'll bet it's a pretty small number...

[carinab]

This is how gaining market share works, you introduce something better for less dollars. If I know anything about how Skinner runs things, I sincerely doubt he'd market his name on something that is less than wonderful. He's a stand up guy.

[mike_pinto]

With all due respect.

Has anyone who has ..ahh.. "reservations" about this gun actually handled one...? I am not the best qualified guy here to make hard and fast statements about the quality..or lack thereof - of a gun. I am qualified to say I have personally handled this particular gun and in "my" considered opinion it is an excellent buy for the money - or a resonable buy at twice the money. I am sure there are people here on this forum who have owned more SS guns than I have....but...I'll bet it's a pretty small number...

What do you know anyway? Somebody telling you about the quality of a pistol is like someone telling Kurt Miller how to load a shotgun. I would really like to see one of these after you, Larry and Benny get give it the "treatment". In fact, we may just have to give the ol' man a call and see what he can do for me!! The new TSS Super Fat Free, with a side of skinny!! I'de buy that!

Mike

Who knows people who know!! :D

[bountyhunter]

With all due respect.

Has anyone who has ..ahh.. "reservations" about this gun actually handled one...? I am not the best qualified guy here to make hard and fast statements about the quality..or lack thereof - of a gun.

The point I was making is that if STI (like Kimber) have decided to enter the mass-market arena where they no longer have direct control of quality and fit, that will likely result in what Kimber achieved: making guns where most are OK, some are exceptional, and some are junk. It's called the "bell curve" and governs the charateristics of a process which is subject to random distribution.

IMHO, the "quality or lack thereof" of a single item is not a definitive representation of the lot, or even the average.

My gripe about off the rack 1911's is this: I usually have to order one and then take whatever shows up. Even if the piece can be examined on the counter, how it shoots is only seen after purchase. I prefer to spend a bit more money to multiply the chances of it being right without going back for work.

[EricW]

At these prices, I think I'd rather buy three Spartans, sell the two I didn't like, and come out ahead.

Edited December 6, 2006 by EricW