Newbie Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have never seen this subject bought up but would like to ask since I've seen this at Nationals. How do you feel about Sand Baggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have never seen this subject bought up but would like to ask since I've seen this at Nationals. How do you feel about Sand Baggers? Don't worry grandpa Dave, we still like you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If you have anything other than heads-up, order of finish, sandbagging will occur. Its a fact of life. Crush sandbaggers beneath your boot heel and move on... Some people will be accused of sandbagging because the classification system has not caught up with them, yet. Give those folks a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have never seen this subject bought up but would like to ask since I've seen this at Nationals. How do you feel about Sand Baggers? Do a search. We've had that sand bag business beat to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have never seen this subject bought up but would like to ask since I've seen this at Nationals. How do you feel about Sand Baggers? Don't worry grandpa Dave, we still like you! LOL, your too funny Cam! Wish you would have been there to shoot with us. I was referring to the guy that came in 1st in the class I shot in. The guy is shooting 73% in Limited and almost 75% in Limited-10 but yet shoots "C" in Open, and you can see by his classifiers he messed up his Open classifiers on purpose, what a joke! How unfair to the shooters who worked their a##es off to be at Nationals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have never seen this subject bought up but would like to ask since I've seen this at Nationals. How do you feel about Sand Baggers? Don't worry grandpa Dave, we still like you! LOL, your too funny Cam! Wish you would have been there to shoot with us. I was referring to the guy that came in 1st in the class I shot in. The guy is shooting 73% in Limited and almost 75% in Limited-10 but yet shoots "C" in Open, and you can see by his classifiers he messed up his Open classifiers on purpose, what a joke! How unfair to the shooters who worked their a##es off to be at Nationals I wouldn't guarantee that. I do fairly well in Production and Limited but absolutely suck with an Open gun. I think it might be a little premature to label a guy a sandbagger because he won his class at Nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have never seen this subject bought up but would like to ask since I've seen this at Nationals. How do you feel about Sand Baggers? Don't worry grandpa Dave, we still like you! LOL, your too funny Cam! Wish you would have been there to shoot with us. I was referring to the guy that came in 1st in the class I shot in. The guy is shooting 73% in Limited and almost 75% in Limited-10 but yet shoots "C" in Open, and you can see by his classifiers he messed up his Open classifiers on purpose, what a joke! How unfair to the shooters who worked their a##es off to be at Nationals Hmmm, since you've given us enough information to identify the person, a careful examination of the shooter's classifier records indicates that he's been a USPSA member for only 2.5 years ----- and that he didn't shoot a single Open classifier until February of this year. Going by the classifier records, he's shot ten open division club matches with classifiers --- and this appears to be his first national championship, and possibly his first major match. Furthermore, his Limited classifiers show the same pattern of inconsistency in performance as his Open classifiers ------ so I suspect, it's a bit premature to label the person a "sandbagger......." But what do I know? BTW, given that I live on the East Coast, I'm pretty certain I've never met the shooter in question..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 so I suspect, it's a bit premature to label the person a "sandbagger......." And this is exactly what I was getting at w/ my second sentence above.... Sandbagging is willfull cheating. Failure of the classification system to properly group folks is another thing entirely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I know who the guy is. We don't hang out but he shoots at my club. I can't speak for him but I'm sure he doesn't sandbag. As Nik stated before, he just started in Open this year and I personally saw him have plenty of gun problems when he first got it so I know he has spent time getting that worked out while trying to learn how to shoot Open at the same time. He doesn't sandbag in the other divisions and I don't see him sandbag in Open. His classifications will catch up......give him time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old john Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Why not vote to have a major match score count as two of your six to average and it stays current for two years so that’s not bumped out with ease unless you shoot the forth major match. Just a thought! Shoot a 74 at a major then you must shoot a 71 classifier to count for the next two years. Why not put the weight so others won't question it! Old john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I'll speak for myself. I love shooting Open and do alright at it. However, when it comes to classifiers, I'm either on or WAY off. Most of that is the pressure I put on myself to try and score as high as possible (see shooting too damn fast instead taking the time it takes to make the shot). Give this guy the benefit of the doubt. If it continues, there is a process through your Section Coordinator to address it. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos Custom Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Kind of hard to call someone a sandbagger who has a higher member number than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Kind of hard to call someone a sandbagger who has a higher member number than you. and what does that have to do with anything Bob? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x23 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I think the point Bob, is making is that given his number he has been at it less time than you. this is just an interpretation, on my part. I too was labeled a SANDBAGGER, when i was shooting in B class, this was not the case. it simply took time for me to understand, the little intricasies that are needed to improve, on the classifier level. Also some classifiers are easier to do well on than others. Give the shooter some leeway, i'm sure you wouldn't like being labeled a cheater by someone you haven't met or know that well, or anyone for that matter. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I think the point Bob, is making is that given his number he has been at it less time than you.this is just an interpretation, on my part. I too was labeled a SANDBAGGER, when i was shooting in B class, this was not the case. it simply took time for me to understand, the little intricasies that are needed to improve, on the classifier level. Also some classifiers are easier to do well on than others. Give the shooter some leeway, i'm sure you wouldn't like being labeled a cheater by someone you haven't met or know that well, or anyone for that matter. trapr Ditto. On top of that is the constant moving I've done over the last 8 years. Just when I start getting into a groove, I move to the other side of the country (or in some cases the world...where I can't f'ing shoot at all). Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Identifying a shooter, and publicly accusing him/her of unethical behavior just seems so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Identifying a shooter, and publicly accusing him/her of unethical behavior just seems so wrong. +1 It's the Nationals, you either bring your A-Game or you don't, he apparently brought his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Thats a HARSH accusation given the information you had available to you (had you done some basic RESEARCH before posting). First major (ever) shooting open for less than 8 months, hits 66% at the nats, I say damn FINE JOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) If he shot 66% of Chris Tilley he should receive a letter from USPSA that says: Congratulations! Based on your outstanding performance at the USPSA Open/Production Nationals your classification has been changed to “B”… Works for me. David C Edited October 18, 2006 by geezer-lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f250sd Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 It seems to be a pattern to accuse the shooter who wins B,C or D class of sandbagging. Someone has to win those classes, and usually its going to be a shooter who is on the verge of getting bumped up to the next class. Thats just the way it goes. There are so many factors involved in how a shooter could be in a lower class than maybe he should be, especially new shooters, or new to a class shooters. Its not all ways sandbagging. How would you feel if you just won your class at the nationals, then log on here and someone all but names you and says you cheated..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 It seems to be a pattern to accuse the shooter who wins B,C or D class of sandbagging. Someone has to win those classes, and usually its going to be a shooter who is on the verge of getting bumped up to the next class. Without knowing the person, and being able to gauge their intentions, their abilities, and their patterns of shooting classifiers, etc, it would be impossible to reasonably suggest that anyone is sandbagging As I said before, sometimes the classification system can't keep up with someone's progress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) My recommendation: Shoot your game and stop worrying how others shoot theirs. Once I figured that out my game got a lot better. The top C open shooter at the Nationals beat 2nd place by 6% and the 2nd place C open shooter at the Nationals beat 3rd place by approx. 5%. The rest of the C open field is seperated by no more than 2% between shooters. Looking at the results in this manner with no other confirming information I'ld say that 1st and 2nd place C open shooters were Sandbagging. I don't really believe that anyone was sanbagging. Just trying to make a point. Edited October 18, 2006 by Bigbadaboom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I think this has been well covered in this thread, and in past threads. Lets shut this one down...as we are getting a way to specific on who is who. CLOSED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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