ParaJoe Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Well I have realized that I can't shoot a field course to save my life. I shot my way to B in Limited and L-10 but I don't shoot field courses as well as I "think" I should be. Anybody have any practice drills or any advice that will help with this? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 It is all about moving efficiently and shooting as soon as you get to the next target. Movement and transitions are where you make up time on field courses if you cannot run like Carl Lewis..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Never stop moving, Never stop shooting, and as allways AIM. As far as drills, box drills work well for me, (most stages allways have boxes be they horizontal of vertical). Much may be learned with a few 3x3 boxes and 2-4 targets set up on a range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Go like hell doing everything BUT shooting. Go like hell and still get your points basically. I am a lot better on field courses than I am on 'stand and blast' stuff and I think it is primarily because I am not afraid to cover distance absolutely wide open as fast as I can go and I shoot decent points most days. That makes for some decent runs on the field courses once in a while The hard part is learning how to slow down enough and for long enough to get the shooting done well once you start to go like hell in everything else. I took a class with Manny Bragg and that was one of the things he really tried to impress on us, when you are shooting just shoot, then move aggressively until the next shooting is available and you need to pull back again. Manny set up a box, a target at about 5 yards, a 'window' about 4 feet long 2 or 3 yards past the first target, another target about 5 yards past the window and a box just short of the last target. You draw and shoot the first target coming out of the box on the move, move aggresively!!! Pull back and shoot 3 steel plates/poppers about 90 degrees to your left or right through the window ON THE MOVE but only as fast as you can hit them, then MOVE aggressively toward the last box shooting the last target on the move, and move aggressively!! Set up into the last box softly enough to shoot another plate/popper about 90 degrees to the line of motion just as soon as you are in the box. Simple drill, two papers and 4 steel. Nothing to it right? It tore us up trying to mix all out speed, slow movement, all out speed and then landing in a box softly enough to shoot the instant you are in it. I am pretty aggressive by nature, so the 'go like hell' part is easy for me. I need the most work on getting pulled back enough to get the shooting done well without having to stop..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 I went against what most people say..........I set up stages and shot them exclusively for a month or two. You can practice small parts of shooting in drills which I have already done but I still wasn't able to put them together in a match consistenly. I was working on 2 major things, Accuracy and movement. When I set up the stage my main focus was shooting A's. I was working on entering, leaving positions and shooting A's while moving. My secondary focus was movement. My goal was to figure out how to move through a stage as quick as possible while still shooting A's. This required understanding how to enter a position, leave a position run like hell then enter another shooting position again. It also helped with stage memory, knowing exactly where every target was, it cuts alot of time off when you aren't searching for targets. It dramatically improved my scores. At this point I'm going back and focusing on drills. I tried the drills 1st and it didn't work. I would suggest the same and if your still having problems set up some stages to try and make everything "flow" in the whole stage. Some things you have to watch out for Always remember your goal is accuracy. If your shooting a good time but have lots of C's and D's it will do nothing but make your shooting worse. You'll go to a match and do the exact same thing. You MUST shoot the A's. Don't worry about times that much. You can check it but don't be too concerned with it. Just use it as a reference. Be aware of what it feels like to shoot an A's while entering a position after a hard run. After awhile your times will come down once you start getting smoother while moving. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaJoe Posted September 8, 2006 Author Share Posted September 8, 2006 Thanks for the tips. I will head to the range and set some boxes up, run those, and then set up a course. Hopefully just practicing these and putting all the skills together and making them work together will help some. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Just my 2 cents. The field course has a lot going on in it. But if you break it down into two distinct parts then it should be easy to improve your times/scores. The first part is the gun handling. If you got to B then you know how to aim and pull the trigger, you're in L10 so you know how to do a reload. Those gun-handling skills should now be almost an unconscious act, in other words you don't have to 'think' about doing it. The second part is the movement bit; This is the part where you can make some major improvements relatively easily. I apologise in advance if I say stuff you already know. Preparation: If you can get to the match early and have a walk-through of the field stages then this is a good thing. If you wait until the match starts then you may only have a couple of minutes to figure out where your feet need to be. During the walkthough you need to first determine where you start and where you need to end up, these are points 'A' and 'Z' respectively. Planning: The trick is to figure out the shortest and most effective route from A-Z that exposes the targets to the shooter. For each port or group of targets you need to then figure out the best way to approach that array, exactly where your feet need to be and where you expect to see the targets appear. For example if shooting through a port you will find a certain spot where you can start to see the targets, the height of those targets and their position is important, the quicker you can start shooting the sooner you will finish shooting. If you watch the top-shooters during their walk-through and when they actually shoot the stage you will notice that they plant their feet in exactly the same place in both cases. This saves fractions of a second and over the course of fire they end up many seconds ahead because of this. Execution: If you are shooting on the move, then bend your knees more than you would normally as this absorbs the impact of your feet hitting the ground. Not doing this can throw your aim off. Nobody shoots on the move faster than they shoot standing still, so your split times will be slower but this is normal, the key is that you are moving towards point 'Z' and point 'Z' is where you can see the last target. Focusing on your feet placement and let the gun move un-consciously and you should see some improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Thanks for the tips. I will head to the range and set some boxes up, run those, and then set up a course. Hopefully just practicing these and putting all the skills together and making them work together will help some. Joe I like to set up a long course then break it down into smaller section, to find out where I make and lose time. Say you have three positions. From the first one, shoot it as if it were a speed shoot Next shoot the last couple of targets from the first position then the first couple of targets from the next position, try different variations. Eg last couple of targets as if it were a speed shoot, or a different pair of targets if affects your movement. Eg end on a close target as opposed to a garder one you might shoot last if you were static. Same goes for entering the next position. Then shoot the second position as if it were a speed shoot, repeat for move to position 3 and then shoot 3rd position as a speed shoot. Break everything down and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Know EXACTLY where all the targets are before the timer sounds. I think a lot of people like me know the general location (better than it sounds), but haven't visualized the exact spot during the planning phase. I'm working out how to train to correct this problem. Really good shooters get to a position totally ready and have the sights dead on the target. I have to look for the exact spot I want to hit. It's got to cost me 0.01 - 0.02 when this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 JFD I respectfully disagree with you....I don't think anyone can memorize where all the targets are on a long field course during the walk thru and waiting for their turn to shoot...I personally think the better shooters just see them faster and have less lost motion when moving and in transitions.......just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Sorry Tightloop, I gotta disagree. You had better be able to memorize the targets appearance and location for a field course if you intend to do well on it. You should be able to visualize it perfectly while waiting to shoot. Some of the best shooters can even do a run through in their heads to the 10th of a second of what they will run it in live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 (edited) Well, admittedly, I have not shot as many long field courses as have lots of folks...but I have seen some courses with probably 35 or 40 targets in 5 or so arrays...more power to them if they can memorize each target location and know in advance what their time will be within .1.... but, I have also seen the best run by targets, TGO, BE, TJ, The Burner, and the like, so I KNOW it happens....they may dial them in most of the time, but noone in immune to blowing past one or even more, or having to "look again" to be sure it is like they thought... As for knowing what their time will be...ok, I will buy an approximation, but it depends on lots of factors to know what it will be within .1....like number of rounds, possible reloads, number of arrays, number of shooting positions....the fewer of the above, probably the closer they can get (as can anyone) but more of the above the larger the guesstimate will be... Pat, if it were that simple, noone would have to fire a shot..they would just walk thru each stage estimate what their time will be, estimate their score and see who is best...errrr, I'm just not buying what your telling me 100%, sorry...Yes, I have seen happen what you elude to, even I can do it in practice sometimes, but too many variables in the mix to have it be even close to a done deal when they go to the line...no one shoots a perfect stage each time they hear LAMR, it's the human factor at work...we're not perfect. Edited September 26, 2006 by tightloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 (edited) I think Pat is right. Getting your eyes to where you want to put the next shot is everything. Knowing the path to get them there will save big time. I bet the guys at the top work hard at this. Edited September 26, 2006 by wide45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Pat and Wide Let's ask and find out.. New thread coming.. TLoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I'd like to see how the GMs answer the question. From what I'm seeing as I spectate, these guys sure don't seem to be scanning for targets in any way, shape, or form. Running past a target is just a screw up. Nobody is perfect. I always shoot my best when I know exactly where the targets are, no question whatsoever. The better you are at it, then the least amount of wasted time you should have. It's my ability to visualize the stage that's holding me back IMHO. If the stage is set up "right", I can keep score and program the locations that way. Most of this is accidental as I just identified that after 39 years of working on mechanics, it's probably my brain that's holding me back now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyd Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Try and video tape yourself. I was suprised at two things......when I watched some of the top shooters I use to think their guns didn't recoil as much as mind did and I was always searching for some type of load that would be softer with less recoil. When I first saw myself shoot on video tape I was suprised that my gun didn't look like it recoiled nearly as much as I thought it was, in fact it looked just like the top shooters recoil......next I was also suprised how slow I was from my last shot in a box to my first shot in the next box, i sort of stood there for a second looking at the target, then moving to the new box and retaking my stance before shooting. I started working faster at leaving and trying to be ready to shoot as soon as i'm in that box. someting to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acolt45 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Video taping your practice is the key to your future performance. Learn from watching yourself and comparing it to others in movement across the course of fire. All the little things add up in time saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 i dont think its possible for anyone to memorize exactly where every target is in a 32 round field course in 5 minutes...it is possible to know exactly where you need to be to shoot those targets the fastest.. its a pet peeve of mine when people use all of the 5 minutes on the walk through...then dont tape targets between shooters because they are too busy walking the course.(being on-deck excluded) Im not a grandmaster or a master, just a pretty solid A class shooter.. work on gettin in and out of positions as fast as possible and keep the gun up when moving. the rest is just target transitions and those can be practiced with simple drills. harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaJoe Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 I have been practicing and shooting matches and I think I'm getting better at shooting the long courses. I have switched from Limited to Production in my quest to become a better shooter (shoot more A's) which is making memorizing all target locations and where to reload a little difficult. I shot L-10 before Limited so it isn't really new to me but combining everything is harder. As a side note, I shot a 36 round feild course this weekend. All paper targets. I was able to memorize where all of them were within the 5 mintues allowed before the stage and my time on deck. I think it gets easier the more that you do it. That's my .02. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Well I have realized that I can't shoot a field course to save my life. I shot my way to B in Limited and L-10 but I don't shoot field courses as well as I "think" I should be. Anybody have any practice drills or any advice that will help with this?Joe For the first few years of competition, by nature, I always did better on stand-and-shoot courses. My field course scores were crap, compared to my stand-and-shoot scores. So I dedicated a couple years of training to practicing mostly field courses. I learned many things, many of which have been mentioned, such as learning to move and shoot efficiently. But the most important thing I learned was how to maintain or preserve the calm, mental state I seemed to naturally have during a stand-and-shoot course after I left the first position on a field course. I remember it didn't take a whole lot of reflection and analysis to figure out where the main problem was. On stand-and-shoot courses, I felt fairly calm and in control as I drew the pistol and popped away at the targets. But if I had to run to a new position, that went right out the window. As soon as I started moving, any sense of being calmly aware was replaced with a panicked "ahhhhh - I gotta go!" type of feeling. So I trained with the goal of learning to recapture a calm, aware feeling as I arrived at each new position. As a part of your walk-through rehearsal, several steps before each position, exhale a sense of calm awareness into your head and belly regions. Then do that when you're running the course. Stick with it. Eventually I was able to shoot field courses with the best of them - but it didn't come naturally at all for me. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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