The Smm 3-gun Rules Have Been Revised

[jhgtyre]

The rules for the SMM 3-Gun match have been revised and are posted at http://smm3gun.com. Of particular note are the changes for Heavy Metal which include the addition of power factors for pistol and rifle along with some changes to the rules for handguns in HM.

-ld

[Chuck Anderson]

I have no idea why you guys would exclude Glocks from Heavy Metal. Which the rules now specifically do. The guy I normally travel with bought a Glock 37 after having malfunction at last years match to shoot Heavy Metal with. I guess I'll have to tell him that his gun is no longer allowed. I'm sorry to see Heavy Metal rules changing between matches instead of getting closer to each other.

I do have to say that I'm glad to see that the dates for the match changed. It'll be nice to not deal with the boneheads on bikes.

[latewatch]

I have no idea why you guys would exclude Glocks from Heavy Metal.

+1, What gives with this decision especially since the caliber is being reduced to 40 ????

[Wakal]

It is a good thing that STI have steel (or aluminum) frames...only the grip is plastic

Alex

[Overkill]

That's BS. First of all, the pistol power factor should be high enough that only 10mm and 45ACP could make it..... 195'ish.; no Short and Week. And there's no real competetive advantage to a glock loaded to 8 rounds vs a 1911 or what ever.....except perhaps that the glock will run. Basically the new hg rule is bring a 45 1911 loaded with target loads or a Single stack 40SW 1911 with your regular IPSC load. Did Bill Wilson write the new rule set?

[kellyn]

I agree IF we are going to have power factors for Heavy Metal, they should be real power factors.

IMHO the pf for pistol ought to be based on a .45 ACP hardball load. 180 or 185 perhaps? 165 is hardly Heavy Metal. It's more a Def Leppard power factor when we should have a Metallica power factor.

I say let the Glocks and XDs play too!

And I also say, PUMP shotguns only!

[ccur]

Hey...I like the PF...now a weenie like ME could shoot He-Man (er..heavy Metal)

Cheryl

[jbullgpd]

I agree IF we are going to have power factors for Heavy Metal, they should be real power factors.

IMHO the pf for pistol ought to be based on a .45 ACP hardball load. 180 or 185 perhaps? 165 is hardly Heavy Metal. It's more a Def Leppard power factor when we should have a Metallica power factor.

I say let the Glocks and XDs play too!

And I also say, PUMP shotguns only!

+1 with kelly, its really only one step away from being Tac iron at this point. Except for the min rifle round size it pretty much is. He-Man should be .45 only, who cares what kind of gun its in. And it should be pump gun 12 gauge only. Seems to me it is far from He-man at this point.

[outerlimits]

i could care less what they do with the rules as long as they allow more than 5 minutes to accept all the applications this december 1.

[Bob Hostetter]

How do you determine if a cartridge is larger then a .308 ?

Is it based on case length, case width, case volume, or caliber? What if I want to shoot a wildcat cartirdge?

[jhgtyre]

I didn't see anything about a wildcat cart but as long as you shoot at least a 7.62x51 or larger and meet the 360 powerfactor I don't see anything in the rules to keep you out of HM.

-ld

[Bob Hostetter]

How do you determine if it is larger?

[Blockhead]

I have to agree with Kelly. I used to shoot HM. The primary attraction was the additional difficulty related to the heavier PF loads and the smaller mag. capacity.

It might help if the match administrators could let folks in on their reasoning behind the decision.

[Overkill]

+1 with kelly, its really only one step away from being Tac iron at this point. Except for the min rifle round size it pretty much is. He-Man should be .45 only, who cares what kind of gun its in.

I think 10mm, 357 mag, 41 mag, 44 mag, and maybe even 357 sig are all in keeping with the spirit of HM. Nobody who shows up with one of those on their hip (match or gunfight) is hopeing to get something for nothing.

One of the tricks I've always wanted to see integrated into a multi gun stage is some sort of decision making interplay between the long gun and the pistol...something that would allow a "gamey" competetor to exploit the range and power of a heavy caliber handgun to enguage some rifle'ish type targets. Perhaps you could set up a stage with a rifle round limit...10 lets say. There's 6 flash targets to enguage at 200 yards, 2 steel at 75 yards plus some paper, and some more close pistol targets. You start with the rifle, do you business, then advance into the rest of the stage....a pistol with some legs might help you get the 75 yard targets without having to run 50 yards.

[P.E. Kelley]

Please say it ain't so!

Why?

Who whined?

Why whine?

Heavy Metal is a test of mettle let us not make it less.

Patrick

[Big Bore]

You know I went out picked up a XD 45 just for HE-MAN and they run out and change the rules.

I am all for the high power factor only a .45 or a 10mm can make.

[Brian Payne]

Heavy Metal - He Man

Rifle - .308 or larger caliber - 20 rounds max. in the weapon. Iron sights

Shotgun - 12 ga. pump action - 9 rounds max. in the weapon (no box magazines)

Handgun - .44 or larger, 8 rounds max. in the magazine

Any brand of weapon may enter.

This way the weapons you use for heavy metal in the other matches can also be used here. Why would you want to change a good thing? Seems like HM is just getting a good start in most of the matches I have seen.

I personally would prefer to use a scope because my old eyes are having trouble seeing some of the longer targets . Other than that, I like it the way it is.

[jhgtyre]

I didn't see anything about a wildcat cart but as long as you shoot at least a 7.62x51 or larger and meet the 360 powerfactor I don't see anything in the rules to keep you out of HM.

-ld

How do you determine if it is larger?

Dial calipers?

-ld

[EricW]

Hey Pat,

I've got a can of hammertone finish Krylon out in the shop. Wanna make them think you've got a steel Glock that's er....cosmetically challenged?

[iainmcphersn]

In related news, the new WWI Heavy Metal division rules are causing some controversy. Armand Hammer (shooting with his son Sledge) complained that chosing to shoot American weapons has shortchanged his rifle capacity. "These damned Brits and their 10 shot SMLEs have to be reigned in. My O3A3 has only 5 rounds and its just wrong that a Limey gets twice that when the buzzer goes off. And I don't care if there was a Lend Lease program in effect, they shold have to shoot English double shotguns, not Winchesters." Hammer's own gear consists of a Springfield 03A3, Winchester 1897 with the barrel shroud, and a 1911 (not 1911A1) pistol. Asked about the use of bayonets on the rifle and shotgun, Hammer said this was strictly for authenticity and not as a recoil dampening devise as others have suggested.

[Mike P]

I agree IF we are going to have power factors for Heavy Metal, they should be real power factors.

IMHO the pf for pistol ought to be based on a .45 ACP hardball load. 180 or 185 perhaps? 165 is hardly Heavy Metal. It's more a Def Leppard power factor when we should have a Metallica power factor.

I say let the Glocks and XDs play too!

And I also say, PUMP shotguns only!

It seems HM has gained enough favor to have been awarded a position on the proverbial "slippery slope". It was optics and autos in Arkansas, now .40's and no Glocks? What's next, you can use a nine, but you have to shoot each target four times?

If the division isn't going to reflect the original HM rules/defining qualifications then it should be called something else.

How about "Manilow Metal"

[Mike P]

In related news, the new WWI Heavy Metal division rules are causing some controversy. Armand Hammer (shooting with his son Sledge) complained that chosing to shoot American weapons has shortchanged his rifle capacity. "These damned Brits and their 10 shot SMLEs have to be reigned in. My O3A3 has only 5 rounds and its just wrong that a Limey gets twice that when the buzzer goes off. And I don't care if there was a Lend Lease program in effect, they shold have to shoot English double shotguns, not Winchesters." Hammer's own gear consists of a Springfield 03A3, Winchester 1897 with the barrel shroud, and a 1911 (not 1911A1) pistol. Asked about the use of bayonets on the rifle and shotgun, Hammer said this was strictly for authenticity and not as a recoil dampening devise as others have suggested.

Indeed, the Brits are whing too, it seems they are crying foul because of son Sledge's alleged use of poison gas. While the use of gas they say is legal, it seems that Sledge's use of Irish beer with corned beef and cabbage to create the poison violates the country of origin clause in the equipment rules. The Americans allow that the rules are somewhat cloudy in this area, and that they were only trying to make major PF.

[Chuck Anderson]

I think Bob's question with the .308 or larger may have been directed at some of the more odd ball wildcat cartridges. Are you saying must be larger than .30 cal and more than 51mm cartridge length? No .338 Whisper, .300 WSSM, etc? Although I could be totally off base and Bob could be thinking something totally different.

[jhgtyre]

I think Bob's question with the .308 or larger may have been directed at some of the more odd ball wildcat cartridges. Are you saying must be larger than .30 cal and more than 51mm cartridge length? No .338 Whisper, .300 WSSM, etc? Although I could be totally off base and Bob could be thinking something totally different.

I asked a similar question about allowed carts, the .300 whisper being one of them, and was told that the rule was quite literal. So as long as it is larger than 7.62mm (ie .30 cal.) x 51mm it should be okay (if it meets power factor). The only other carts I can imagine anyone using would be 8mm mauser and 7.62x54r but I doubt that there are too many FN49, Hakim or Dragunov shooters out there!

-ld

ps- I am just a flunky who helps these guys out with our meager website. My response does not indicate any approval of any equipment or cartridge by the match directors.

[Helmut]

I agree IF we are going to have power factors for Heavy Metal, they should be real power factors.

IMHO the pf for pistol ought to be based on a .45 ACP hardball load. 180 or 185 perhaps? 165 is hardly Heavy Metal. It's more a Def Leppard power factor when we should have a Metallica power factor.

I say let the Glocks and XDs play too!

And I also say, PUMP shotguns only!

I agree with you kelly...don't restrict the type of weapon, just caliber.....but now my sti edge 45acp (bull barrel) is now illegal (did we just join IDPA?).....i made the same comments on the ark state 3-gun where pump and auto shotguns where lumped in the same, also rifle optic and irons where scored the same.....no separation......i guess we will have HE-OPEN soon....

i think the first set of rules where great.....why screw with them.....i would even be open to 10mm being allowed (at factory loads), but not 40.

i have told eddie rhodes and you this before.......here is He-Man

Model 29 smith 6", with magnum loads only!

Pump 12ga with OO buck full power loads

Garand! Just love to hear that "cling"

Step up and be a He-Man!

Garret Hawkins

(the bald hawkins)