Sterling White Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) Remember some of the older sci-fi movies were guns are being used? Was sitting here pondering about one in particular...the one with 007 taking a space shuttle up to a space station to stop dr. evil. Questions are: What would happen if I shot a gun in space? Am guessing there would be enough oxidizer in the propellant & primer to get a bang or would it be a pop? Am also guessing that I would need some kind of support for myself to keep from moving backwards? And, am guessing that this probably would give a new meaning to the term "being down range" if the gun was shot at the same orbit level? Guess you could be hit by your own bullet if it followed the same orbital path except at a higher speed? Edited July 26, 2006 by gmw2b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 The bullet would fire and exit the barrel exactly as on earth, the podwer burns into a case before the bullet leaves the case so any oxygen is already in there. Shuttle manouver in space using jet engines the same as on earth. You would not go backwards at the same speed as the bullet due to the mass difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 The bullet would fire and exit the barrel exactly as on earth, the podwer burns into a case before the bullet leaves the case so any oxygen is already in there. Shuttle manouver in space using jet engines the same as on earth. You would not go backwards at the same speed as the bullet due to the mass difference. The big question is would the bullet be able to hold the oxygen in the case long enough to fire. As we all know from HS physics that gases always seek the area of lowest pressure. In the case of the bullet the air in the case will be at greater pressure than the surrounding atmosphere. The gas trapped in the case will try to get out and the only thing holding it in is the bullet. The question then becomes is there enough tension (friction) between the bullet and the case neck to over come the gas as it seeks to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 It will work as normal - if you believe NASA. One of the contingency plans NASA had long ago was (at least theoretically) providing a 45 auto pistol as an emergency tool (propulsion device). I thought that the air in the case was necessary to at least begin combustion, but NASA seems to disagree. My guess is that somewhere along the line somebody brought their gun to work and shot it in a vacuum chamber just to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 If it did fire you may be violating rule 4: Rule 4 - Be sure of your target and what lies beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 You do not need gaseous oxygen in the case to fire. Gun powder has both fuel and oxidizer present in solid form. The fuel burns and the oxidizer reacts at ignition releasing gaseous oxygen for the fuel to consume. Primers also have a combination of fuel and oxidizer in a percussive sensitive form. There is no reason a gun should not fire in a vacuum. The ammunition will function fine. Your going to have more problems with your lubrication evaporating in the vacuum, if you use a light oil, than problems with the cartridges igniting. None-the-less most firearms should function just fine in a vacuum. mcb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) I am confident the lack of oxygen would have little bearing on the ammunition. I do wonder what effect the lack of atmospheric pressure would have on chamber pressures and the corresponding pressure curve. Would you need to back off on the load a bit to compensate? Probably not. The minimal area of the barrel / chamber affected by atmospheric pressure at 14.7 psi would probably be too small to matter. I look forward to the first IPSC match on the moon to test these theories. Welcome to the "Lunar Classic"? Tls Edited July 26, 2006 by tlshores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 The mass of the air in the barrel is inconsequential to the chamber pressure of the cartridge. The push you'd get would be small, indeed. Let's see, 230 at 800 fps, carry the one.....ignoring the added mass of the suit and tanks (I don't know what they'd weigh) I'd be propelled backwards at a blistering .122 fps. More likely the firearm wouldn't work, due to lubricant evaporation and subsequent vacuum welding of the contact surfaces of slide and frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kane Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I couldn't resist... the geek in me is screaming to get out. Not sure if this is right but I think if you weight 160lbs and shoot a 240 gr bullet 800 fps in space your personal velocity to the rear ends up being about 11.7 fps. That's pretty darn fast! Almost 8mph! Assuming complete conservation of energy and 1/2mv^2=1/2mv^2 and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Ok, we're doing what ifs..... if you were in a jet traveling 3000fps, and shot a bullet (at 3000 fps) out the rear of the aircraft.. what would the bullet due in relation to the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 It would get closer to the ground cos of the gravity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Stop that! You know what I mean.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 The bullet would fire and exit the barrel exactly as on earth, the podwer burns into a case before the bullet leaves the case so any oxygen is already in there. Shuttle manouver in space using jet engines the same as on earth. You would not go backwards at the same speed as the bullet due to the mass difference. The big question is would the bullet be able to hold the oxygen in the case long enough to fire. Only if the case was sealed well enough to maintain internal pressure integrity. We made power supplies that went in HARM missiles that fly under the wing of a fighter and they had to be tested in an altitude chamber at pressure equivalent of 100,000 feet. The cases which had any tiny defect would allow the unit to lose internal pressure and then it would blow up the power coverter due to electrical arcing between components, resulting from loss of atmosphere.Ok, we're doing what ifs..... if you were in a jet traveling 3000fps, and shot a bullet (at 3000 fps) out the rear of the aircraft.. what would the bullet due in relation to the ground? If the bullets final and steady velocity w/respect to the plane was as stated, the bullet would have no velocity with respect to ground (momentarily) then start falling.You do not need gaseous oxygen in the case to fire. Gun powder has both fuel and oxidizer present in solid form. The fuel burns and the oxidizer reacts at ignition releasing gaseous oxygen for the fuel to consume. Primers also have a combination of fuel and oxidizer in a percussive sensitive form.There is no reason a gun should not fire in a vacuum. I've seen them fired underwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I heard that the American Rifleman had an article, maybe in the 60s, in which they fired a bullet into a dummy on a fairly frictionless track. I think the idea was to see whether they movies get it right - someone flying wildly back when hit with a bullet. IIRC, it's momentum that is transferred. So a half-ounce bullet hitting a 200 lb man at 1000 fps would work out like this: momentum of 1/2 ounce at 1000 fps = momentum of 200 lbs at 6.4 fps With regard to the bullet circling the moon and hitting you, it would have to be at exactly the right velocity. Too fast and it has escape velocity, breaking orbit and flying into space. Too slow and it gradually loses altitude then hits the surface of the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Oxygen in the case is a non-issue. The powder and primer bring plenty all locked up in their chemical structures. Scuba divers have been carrying 12-Ga or .357 Mag-powered Bang Sticks around for years underwater. No free oxygen under the sea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Remember in the " our mrs. Reynolds" episode of firefly, did the shoot the rifle out of an eva suit at the end? I'll have to dig the dvd out to find out why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 (edited) Ahh but the eternal question is If you shoot a pistol in space and no one is around to hear it does it still make a noise ? LOL! Steven BTW for those of us welathy enugh to test the theory the Russians are offering spacewalks now in addition to the trip to the space station. Add another 15 mill on top of the 20mill to get to the station and you can have a 90 minute space walk in a russian spacesuit. Edited July 27, 2006 by standles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Johnson Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 What would happen if I shot a gun in space? Klaatu would fly up in his saucer and have Gort disintegrate you with his eyeball death ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 What would happen if I shot a gun in space? Klaatu would fly up in his saucer and have Gort disintegrate you with his eyeball death ray. Before you could get the shot off an air/space marshall would jump from his seat and disarm you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 What would happen if I shot a gun in space? Your mag boots would hold you to the deck so you wouldn't move much. The gun would cycle but it would be really kewl because you couldn't hear it. The bullet would go forever in the direction you fired it until it hit something or went into orbit around something. Klatu would frown. Gort would melt your gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 What would happen if I shot a gun in space? Your mag boots would hold you to the deck so you wouldn't move much. The gun would cycle but it would be really kewl because you couldn't hear it. The bullet would go forever in the direction you fired it until it hit something or went into orbit around something. Klatu would frown. Gort would melt your gun. Unless you shot Klatu. Then you would have to remember "Klatu Barrada Nickto" or else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Ahh but the eternal question is If you shoot a pistol in space and no one is around to hear it does it still make a noise ? LOL! NO, Sound waves can not be transmitted through a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Ahh but the eternal question is If you shoot a pistol in space and no one is around to hear it does it still make a noise ? LOL! NO, Sound waves can not be transmitted through a vacuum. Ok but the gaseous product expelled as part of the firing event would transmit sound. There exists a discontinuity between the gas and the vacum that sound cannot cross. So the sound wave energy would continue to bounce back and forth in its expanding universe of gaseous products until it expanded enough to partially encompass the shooter and transmit sound. Of course the sound would attenuate and transfer its energy to the gaseous bubble via a heating process so it would not bang forever. BTW> I saw a special on the atomic bomb. Did you know that early on in a test the engineers forgot to account for a lithium reaction in the event. The result was the observers were almost caught in the ground zero area because it expanded almost 3 times furhter than expected. The observers and engineers at the time thought they had accidentally set the hydrogen in the atmosphere on fire and were witnessing the uncontrolled reaction that would have incinerated the earth. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Ahh but the eternal question is If you shoot a pistol in space and no one is around to hear it does it still make a noise ? LOL! NO, Sound waves can not be transmitted through a vacuum. Ah but could the shooter hear the shot transmitted through his body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 This is the funniest post NOT in the Humor Forum! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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