tightloop Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) PM me if you have any further remarks.. David Winkler aka Tightloop Edited July 1, 2006 by tightloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 You have GOT to make it personal, don't you...PM me if you have any further remarks.. David Winkler aka Tightloop He's Back, Nipple, you owe me $1000 for that 10-1 bet :):) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Glad I could make you some lunch money Zman...my flight gets into New York tomorrow now that you ask...Loose the Hounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I am flying thru NYC tonight on my way to London. At the Aiprort now, just somehting new and different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) "You have GOT to make it personal, don't you..." Making it personal? "Leave L-10 alone let the wide body guys have their fun there too. I will spent my money and shoot SS, with my completely retro flush fitting mags, even my old Gordon Davis mag holders..." Best news I've heard ALL week.... I'm agreeing w/you.... "With all due respect..." Heart felt AND meant.... "Perhaps the best solution is to vote your feelings by spending your money where you think your niche is in the sport...build your guns, load your ammo, buy whatever type of mags you want then load it all up and go to the matches and see if you can't stomp the butt of the guys who mouth off the loudest from the groups you'd rather not hear from..." What makes you think this isn't already happening? Further agreement.... I'm sorry ...but I'm not really sure what for. Edited July 1, 2006 by Chuck D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 You can discuss it or cuss it, kick it over here or over there. no matter. The botton line is circles on entry forms, if the people with the guns show up, the division will live. If not it will go away. By the way, that applys to all the divisions.------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) In my eyes, single-stack division is an answer to a problem that never existed. Three 10 round magazines is all that is required to turn an IDPA legal .45 into a gun that is as competitive as anything else in L-10 division. Limited 10 is everything SS isn't. Bull barrels are OK. Quickie holsters are OK. Guns that weren't designed by JMB are OK. Many of the 5,000 or so USPSA members that live in states where hi-cap mags are illegal have guns that they cannot shoot in JMB division. I'll be shooting my single-stack in L-10 at the Nationals in September. I'll be wearing a kydex holster straight-up on the hip too. If somebody else wants to shoot a downloaded wide-body in a high-zoot holster that is great by me. Competing against shooters with different guns and rigs makes the whole experience more enjoyable. The BOD would be wise to see the growing numbers in L-10 and leave it alone. Right now, L-10 is a heads up, run-what-ya-brung division that embodies the spirit of stock gun racing. Why would we want to screw that up? Thanks Sam! You've just summed up my (and several of my shooting buddies) position is on this! Ed Edited July 1, 2006 by Run n Gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 ipscbob...Do know who the first President of the US was, do you know who the first man on the moon was, do you know who first hit 714 homeruns....NO you probably don't and probably don't care...but for those of us who are aware of the present also remember the past so that we can appreciate and thank those that came before us and gave us what we have today... There are some of us who think that formation of SS division is evolution, as it caters to shooters who, for whatever reasons don't presently shoot USPSA, or for those that want a reason to shoot another division...for those that want a place to shoot their IDPA gun w/o having that ugly ass 10 round mag hanging out of it.. And for what it is worth, the luminaries who put this sport together and MADE it what it is today, don't warrant your snide and totally uninformed comments. And as for the future of this sport, until I read your name next to those like Max, Eric, TT, TGO, and the like, I doubt that Mr. Voigt has your number on his speed dial.. Rant Off... OH! Now that's uncalled for. I am truly hurt. Just because I don't share your appreciation for nostalgia, doesn't mean I know nothing of history. It's at times like this that I take a deep breath, pause for a moment, and ask myself the age old question....What would Jeff Cooper do in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycanthrope Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 We have several crossover shooters (both IDPA and USPSA) at our club and we'd love to shoot Single Stack more often. We just figure if we're paying the extra money for the Classifier to be sent in, we might as well shoot a gun where it counts. Our Single Stack Classifiers feel worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I really hope it is not a failure, cause I want to get out of Alaska and compete more. I want to hit every match I can possibly go to. Single stack included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 In my eyes, single-stack division is an answer to a problem that never existed. Why would we want to screw that up? Thanks Sam! You've just summed up my (and several of my shooting buddies) position is on this! Ed Yup...Sam hit all the key points. Single stack guns give up nothing to widebodies in L10 (unfortunatly there are people who refuse to believe it....but then they've probably never heard of the word "practice" either). I'm my case, I've seen the handwritting on the wall and decided to get of the boat before it sinks. I started shooting USPSA with a single stack gun in Limited before there was L10. When L10 was created, I shot that and loved it. But then Single Stack comes along (which like Sam, I feel brings NOTHING to the party that L10 doesn't already cover) and there is talk of dumping L10. Yes, I've written letters to my Area Director and MV on more than one occasion about my feelings regarding L10...but I still hear (see Gary's previous post) that there are forces in place to kill of L10 and replace it with Single Stack. I have no interest in shooting Single Stack with production equipment and 8 round mags. I like 10 round mags and race holsters...but the powers that be in USPSA apparently have something else in mind. So what did I do? I sold off my Custom Shop Springfield and bought an STI Edge and switched to Limited division.....because I won't shoot single stack division....and 10 rounds in Limited isn't going to be competitive (I learned that a long time ago). Its too bad because I really liked shooting L10 with a single stack.....but I'm not waiting for the rats to leave before the ship sinks. At least now I'm shooting a division that USPSA isn't going to kill off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Steve, I understand your motivation for changing. I'll be shooting Limited with my STI this weekend at the Shootout in Cheyenne. The word is that there are going to be a bunch of hot-rock GMs shooting Limited down there, so I can't pass up the opportunty to swin with the sharks. Going back and forth between the two Limited divisions is really easy for me. However, switching between Production and either of them is a major adjustment. I'll keep the SS .45 warmed up and shoot L-10 as long as it lasts. I want to be the guy that turns the lights out on it if it ever does go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardschennberg Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 One solution for Division dillution is to add just two rules: 1. Open Division is mandatory for all USPSA matches. Scoring Open Divison is required if there are at least two participants, but prizes need not be awarded. 2. Shooters will be allowed to shoot the match in one Division but will also be allowed to shoot the Classifer in other Divisions for classification purposes only. Even without the addition of rules, it may be a good idea to restrict Class prizes (D-A, M, GM) to one or two divisions only. The reason I suggest always scoring Open even for matches that do not award Open prizes is that even if the match is Single Stack, Production, or whatever, it is better to bump shooters into Open for (usually inadvertent) equipment violations than for them not to shoot for score at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 The best quote of this thread would have to be: "The BOD would be wise to see the growing numbers in L-10 and leave it alone. Right now, L-10 is a heads up, run-what-ya-brung division that embodies the spirit of stock gun racing." I wish I could have summed it up so well. My vote for the biggest bunch of BS quote goes to: "And for what it is worth, the luminaries who put this sport together and MADE it what it is today, don't warrant your snide and totally uninformed comments. And as for the future of this sport, until I read your name next to those like Max, Eric, TT, TGO, and the like, I doubt that Mr. Voigt has your number on his speed dial.." Pro shooters don't come close to representing the majority of our members.....Got to be the most stupid thing I've seen posted to date. Put that man in charge of USPSA and it would be dead within a year. My wife shot L-10 for the last time yesterday. She'll now shoot my Para Limited gun while I make the switch to the new G35. L-10 has been "under attack" since I started this game and I'm sick of it. Too bad that these attacks never come from actual L-10 shooters who might at least have a clue what they are talking about. Kill L-10 and the sport will suffer. I'm going to simply sit back and see what the BOD really does, as all of this is nothing more than loose talk right now. Of course this loose talk has already driven several shooters away from the "gun that started it all" to widebody guns in Limited. Oh yeah.....great plan....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 The tone of this thread has gone well beyond the scope of this forum. CLOSED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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