Para 16-40?

[VeryBadshot]

Hello all,

About to jump in. Been looking real hard at the 16-40, both standard and limited models. Any one have any feelings good , bad about these models?

Thx

Charlie

[sargenv]

I have a heavily modified P16-40. Out of the box it isn't all that great, but after replacing everything on it, it's been a pretty good L/L10 pistol for me. The only original parts on it are the frame, slide, barrel, and grips. I've replaced everything on it either through attrition(breakage) or outright replacement from a performance standpoint. It's a gun you can pretty much shoot box stock and modify on the way.

Vince

Edited May 8, 2006 by sargenv

[Religious Shooter]

I have a P14 and a P16.

They are good guns to start with. But they aren't as well made as the STI/SVI guns. The slide and frame fit gets loose quicker and the small parts aren't that great.

On my P16 the bushing broke. The slide originally had the 1911 sights and I had Bomars installed. After a couple of years a chunk of the slide (from the top of extractor hole to the flat of the Bomar cut) just broke off. It still shot fine but I eventually replaced the slide with a Les Baer slide.

Both guns had those gunsmith (to most) unfriendly round bottom hammers. I had to replace the hammers and the sears on both guns. I also switched to tapped steel mag-releases and installed S&A magwells and Bomars.

[Jim Norman]

I have two P-16's.

One is a Limited Model, I added a magwell and had a trigger job. It works well.

The second is a custom gun from EGW. It has a Para Frame and Grips. I think there are no other Para parts at all. It has run well over 50K rounds and is still tight and accurate.

Jim

[born-in-45]

I have a S16-40 Ltd that I picked up in December. Have put about 5000 rounds through it without a single problem. All I did was add a Dawson FO front sight, Ice magwell, and add Dawson Mag bases to get 20 rounds in the mags. It has proven to be accurate and reliable. Did a 3 lb trigger job on stock components. I would definitely recommend one as a economical way to get into Limited and be competitive.

GRINS

[Tman33_99]

Started with P16 limited 6 years ago and have modified it here and there. Mine shot fine out of the box, but hated factory ammo, and had to jump into reloading a little sooner than planned to get the longer length to help feeding. Eventually a S&A magwell was added and the factory trigger was tuned up, fiber optic front added, and tungsten guide rod. Later the stock trigger parts were replaced for a great trigger. Just had the front strap checkered and the trigger guard relieved. All in all it is a very good pistol.

[JFD]

What sargenv said. I love mine and the only problem I've had was the bushing break. My normal procedure with any 1911 type gun is to replace damn near everything anyway, I just hadn't gotten around to the bushing. Lucky that it broke in practice.

I beat the crap out of a bunch of S_I shooters Saturday, so the gun surely isn't holding me back.

[ahtsay]

Here's a pic of mine. Had a trigger job w/ STi parts to 3#, and added an S&A Magwell. Can't really say anything bad bout it. I've gone through 1200 rounds so far with crappy, un tumbled reloads and it has swallowed everything without a hiccup. I think they are a great value for someone starting out. Maybe not as good as an S_I, but it works, and costs less. My 2 cents worth

[Kyreb]

I have shot a heavily modified p-16 for the past eight years. I also bought another P16 limited for IDPA use. (Did this due to the investment I had already made in mags) I have since sold the Limited to a buddy that was just entering our sport.

I have mixed opinions about Para in general. IMHO- Their metalurgy leaves a lot to be desired. I had a couple blemishes (casting voids) appear in the grip on my limited gun when it was checkered. The slide cracked early in the life of the gun due (again in my opinion) to another void. Para reniged on the warranty because I had a gunsmith cut a dovetail in it for a FO front sight.

I also have experienced extractor and ejector failures that I also blame on their substandard metal.

The new P-16 has a plastic mag catch. I would recommend replacing that immediately with a steel catch. It is junk.

All in all, I think I'd take a real hard look at STI if I was just starting and looking at a new gun.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Kyreb

[f250sd]

I am happy with my Para 16 now, although I have done a lot to it, some for good reason, some just because. The down side is I have more$$ in it than just to have bought an STI to start with. But, then again, what fun would that have been.

[VeryBadshot]

Thx for all the good feed back. I keep seeing STI in the responses, which begs yet another question. What is the cost of a STI gun vs Para? My local dealer will order a Para for around $950.

Best,

Charlie

[Kyreb]

Thx for all the good feed back. I keep seeing STI in the responses, which begs yet another question. What is the cost of a STI gun vs Para? My local dealer will order a Para for around $950.

Best,

Charlie

This is the trap I fell into...the initial cost of the gun vs. what it takes to get it "race ready". My wife was downsized and went back to college so funds were tight. I bought a box stock Para P-16 (the limited was not available back then) and had my gunsmith build it as I paid him a little bit each month.

By the time I had the Para where I wanted it, the STI would have been a whole lot cheaper and maybe more reliable too.

Take a hard look at the STIs offered by shootersconnection.com

Chuck is a competitor, a great guy to do business with and a master distributor for STI.

[Jim Norman]

If I were starting out today and not during the Klinton years, i may have gone with an STI. As it was, I could get Para Mags, but not STI, so I went that way. That said, you should try both, I know people that cannot get used to the defferent balance between an S_I and a Para.

I have two Para Limited guns, one is from Para and only has a trigger and a magwell the other is fully custom gun built by EGW. Both run well, although the EGW is the one that I use regularly. The other is brought along as a back-up.

I also have a Para Open gun, This was a mistake! Not because it is a Para, but because it was a used gun bought from a guy that was not as good as his word. That said, the gun works well and is currently my steel gun.

I suggest again very strongly that you ask a couple of your shooting buddies if you can run a couple courses with there various guns.

Jim Norman

[bountyhunter]

I have a heavily modified P16-40. Out of the box it isn't all that great, but after replacing everything on it, it's been a pretty good L/L10 pistol for me. The only original parts on it are the frame, slide, barrel, and grips. I've replaced everything on it either through attrition(breakage) or outright replacement from a performance standpoint.

Vince

That's a song I hear over and over. Para's are like most production 1911's: some are decent, some are dogs. The piece parts are pretty much junk. I have a 1640 and the frame, slide and barrel are pretty solid. The list if things I had to fix on mine to get it to run would go off the page.

Thx for all the good feed back. I keep seeing STI in the responses, which begs yet another question. What is the cost of a STI gun vs Para? My local dealer will order a Para for around $950.

Best,

Charlie

Bottom line STI Trojan runs about $925 at dawson Precision. For what you get, nothing else even comes close.

Edited May 9, 2006 by bountyhunter

[Cuz]

I've got an older P16.40 Limited with the LDA trigger. While the gun is 100% reliable with any ammo I fed it I would not recommend the LDA trigger type for USPSA. I shot it for a year and then ordered an SVI. The Para is now my backup gun that I bring to matches.

-Cuz.

[kevin c]

Like Jim Norman, I have two single action Paras, one "stock" and one custom. The stock gun basically has only the slide and frame left from the original parts, the custom gun, only the frame is Para, and that was a gunsmith (unfinished) frame at that. The one Para I have that is all original is a "Limited Edition" LDA, which could hardly be called a typical example straight off the production line.

I like the weight of the guns, and, after all that has been done to them, the way they shoot (though the stock barrels seemed a bit underbored, and I have had problems with normally accurate ammo having flyers). Like Jim, it was convenient for me to keep buying what I already had because, with west coast restricitons, I could use my grandfathered magazines among all my guns no problem. Like Jim, I might also go a different route if I had to start all over again.

Kevn C.

[JFD]

I'd like to add that my Para has at least 60K rounds through it and other than the bushing breaking, it has never failed to function 100%. Still using the original ejector and extractor. I just replaced the safety with an Ed Brown, but there's nothing wrong with the original. Barrel, slide and grip safety are the only remaining factory parts, but most of my guns don't get to keep that much.

I would, and will again, go with the Para.

[HSMITH]

I shot Paras for about 15 years, all sorts of different guns and configurations. I have owned 5 factory guns and 9 customs that I can think of right this minute. Some were good, some were great, some weren't much more than trade material. The EARLY factory guns were very nice, a TON better than what they are turning out now. Current production Para that I have seen is pretty darn poor compared to what they used to do, barrel fit and slide to frame fit should embarass the hell out of them from the last 6 or 8 factory guns I have looked at. The early factory guns make the current production look horrible.

I bought an STI, full custom, to replace my Para in Limited class. The STI is really nice. It is a much better made frame, the slide is nice as well. The quality of the STI magazine is MUCH better. That is about as far as I can compare the two in a fair manner. I still prefer the feel of the Para frame in my hand, I still prefer the light weight of the Para alloy frame compared to a short frame/classic slide STI. The STI is a real shooter, and it cost about what a Para would have if I had taken both to the same level. The STI frame will be, in my opinion, quite a bit more durable. Other than that I think it is a wash really.

From what I have seen the current production Para needs a couple hundred worth of attention just to get where it should have been right out of the box and to be reliable.

I think the smart money is to buy an STI and shoot it, but my feelings tell my I still like Para's a LOT.

[toddrod]

I love mine. It is basically stock with the addition of a Dawson ICE magwell and FO front sight. Still have all the original parts in it and have over 10000 rounds through it without any problems.

[sargenv]

I know all about losing the bushing, lol.. Here I was shooting in practice one day when all of a sudden it stops shooting.. I brought it down only to see that the bottom of the bushing was sheared off and the reverse plunger was somewhere in the dirt in front of me. I never did find it. I've since had the Briley 2 piece bushing fitted to it. I've not been shooting it lately but only because of getting ready to shoot the big ICORE match in Morro Bay. The great thing is that I can shoot my minor ammo through it without having to do anything to it save except maybe adjust the sights.

Vince

[mai]

If you are new to IPSC and also new shooter, stock PARA is the best to start. You may use the P-16 limited for 1-2 years without any modification needed. When you shoot better and you sure of IPSC loving, that's the time to spend money for modification or even other guns.

[grassy knoll]

the worst part about not doing well in a match is not doing well because of unreliable equipment, the equipment has to work flawlessly

I have spent time and money getting my Para to work, would I have spent less in the long run to get another brand working??

money spent on ammo is still the best investment

[VeryBadshot]

If you are new to IPSC and also new shooter, stock PARA is the best to start. You may use the P-16 limited for 1-2 years without any modification needed. When you shoot better and you sure of IPSC loving, that's the time to spend money for modification or even other guns.

New to IPSC. Had a 14-45 at one time(ripped out with 6 other wonderful guns) it worked great out of the box. Have a line on a used 16 40 LTD, think it will most likely be my first gun for this type of shooting. I like the look of the STI products, just can,t make that kind of investment at this time. Hopefully as I get to some matches I will have a chance to try one.

The nearest range holding these kind of matches is......87 miles from where I live. I have started bulldozing a range on my land, so a place to shoot is not a problem. I started reloading on a Dillon 450 in 1982, no staranger to making BIG lots of bullets.......just looking for a fun way to shoot them

[basman]

I started in Limited with a para, bought a new one on line for under 700. Then added Mags, basepads, Spring and followers, magwell, fiber optic FS and changed the springs. I think the total was around 1200. Then I figured i'd shoot the crap out of it and wait for stuff to break.

Well, still waiting.

[VeryBadshot]

I started in Limited with a para, bought a new one on line for under 700. Then added Mags, basepads, Spring and followers, magwell, fiber optic FS and changed the springs. I think the total was around 1200. Then I figured i'd shoot the crap out of it and wait for stuff to break.

Well, still waiting.

HEHE