Question About My Aging Eyes

[Mr. Chitlin]

As I near the half century mark, I am having issues with my aging eyes. I am very near sighted. Without corrective lens, I can read a newspaper up to about 12 inches away. From there on, it is a total blur. I am -3.50 in both eyes. With corrective lens (contacts) I can see just fine from ~3 feet on out, but any closer it is a blur. With corrective lens in, I need "cheaters" to read.

Herein lies my problem: With my corrective lens in, I see the target just fine, but the front and rear sights are blurry, blurry enough that I have a little problem keeping them aligned (Dawson Target rear and fiber optic front on a Glock 35). With my cheaters on, the front and rear sights are sharp and clear, but the targets are blurry. Out to about 7 to 10 yards, I can see them good enough to hit the targets, but further than that, I wouldn't be able to see them clear enough to be sure of a hit. Also, with the cheaters, I can't see the bullet hits, whereas with just the contacts in, I can see the bullet holes out to ~20 yards or a little more. My only other option seems to be to wear safety glasses with the cheater in the bottom, and try shifting my view from sights to target, but that eats up time.

It's tough getting old and going blind...

What is the thoughts about my delimma? Clear sights and blurry targets or clear targets and blurry sights?

Thanks for any help.

[Ron Ankeny]

I shot for over a year with a "soft" focus on the front sight. When it got to be a blur I went for specialty glasses with the right eye set for the distance to the front sight. I tape the left eye from the middle of the lens up because of double vision, but I can see when I am moving (kind of anyway). As far as I am concerned, if it's a choice between the target and the sights, the sights (front sight) takes priority. Benos told me that but I had to learn the hard way.

[38superman]

I am getting farsighted as I get older.

Without glasses distance vision is sharp but sights are a blur.

With reading glasses it's the opposite.

Sights are clean and downrange is a blur.

Best compromise I have found are lenses that the keep front sight in soft focus.

That makes the sights usable and the downrange "good enough".

As my eyes get worse this balancing act becomes harder to maintain.

Given a choice I'll take being able to see my sights.

As for the targets I'll just "use the force."

Tls

[ChuckS]

Shoot open!

[BritinUSA]

Your optician should be able to prescribe some contacts that will focus on the distance to the front sight. Most lenses are setup for more than 3 feet to infinity but there is no reason why you could not get a prescription (just for shooting) that lets you focus on the front sight.

Call you optician and explain the problem. They should be able to help. You don't need to take the gun in to your examination, just tell them you want to be able to focus on an object 2-3 inches further than your extended arm.

[ChuckS]

I have tried to use bifocals shooting and they worked OK, but were very slow. Also, there were shooting positions that I could not move my head enough to get to the near vision portion (prone, for example) After (finally) listening to many folks I tried a pair of glasses set to focus on the front sight. It was startling how clear both the front and rear sight were. The targets are a blur but that does not matter. A side benefit is that you will REALLY learn how to call your shots since there is no way you will see the holes! Looking for the holes takes too much time anyhow. The last match I shot limited there were 2 metric targets on a slider that ran laterally from about 30 yards to 25 yards. I took one makeup based on a called shot for a total of 5 rounds. One target was 2A and one was AC. I was able to make the shot even with having to lead the targets. It is worth a try. Single vision glasses are pretty cheap so you can have a pair of Clark Kents made or get a set of lenses made for an old frame.

Or you can shoot open

Later,

Chuck

[wsimpso1]

Several points:

Seeing Bullet Holes - Let it go! You really do need to quit being dependant upon seeing bullet holes. Calling shots and knowing where they went are ESSENTIAL. Once you know where the shots are going, you can trust that the good ones are there and make up the bad ones and eventually only fire the good ones and get good at that. But the first step is being able to call individual shots. Brian talks about this extensively in his book, and there are many believers on this forum.

What You Must See - See The Front Sight! The front sight in relation to the rear sight is FAR more important than the details of the target. If your focus on the front sight is poor, yopu do not know where the front sight is in the back sight, and alignment matters more than where you place the sights on the target. This too is the subject of many forums and a chunk of Brian's book too.

Glasses/Contact Lenses - I have it worse than you. I had cateract surgery, so I have zero distance accomodation. My shooting glasses for iron sights have the dominant eye focus shifted to give clear focus slightly further away than the front sight while the off-side eye is set up purely for distance. No bifocals, yet they allow everything on the range.

I went through the process of working them out with my optometrist for NRA High Power Service Rifle, where the front sight has to be SHARP and the target is always accepted as being very soft. Got my Expert's card there before I got into "practical" shooting, and the glasses work fine here too.

Now for what we do in our games, I suppose that a bit more distance out would actually be better, and that is an experiment I intend to perform with my next right lens. Now at 50 years, you have some accomodation left, so you could set the aiming eye lens for a little beyond where the front sight is, and use your remaining accomodation to pull the sight into focus, while using a distance correction for the non-aiming eye. But seriously, once you have acquired the target, you need to see the front sight above all else. So make that happen. Then start working on calling shots...

Billski

[Eager]

Ask your optomitrist about "Monovision". I read about other shooters using it and got it myself. It's when one lens (of glasses) is set to magnify a bit, while the other lens is set for distance correction. I'm right handed and left eyed so I normally squint my left eye when I shoot. At that point I'm looking through the lens with a little magnification, which helps to see the sights, at the expense of the target. When, I move, my left (dominant) eye takes over and sees distance clearly through a distance corrected lens. I use the Rudy Project sports glasses system (the Tactical model) with a Rx insert. It seems to work pretty well.

about monovision

Edited April 30, 2006 by Eager

[Radical Precision Designs]

It is interesting how our body parts age differently than a good wine. In a few weeks I will be fifty six. And, I truly try to live with any limitations I have accumulated through the years, including my eyes.

That said, it's been said: Shoot Open. Yep! That can be a solution/fix when your eyes go south a bit, but not a cure. There is no cure. But there is/are ways around it to reinforce your abilities. There are more (senses) than just the sense of "sight" to carry us through our accurate shooting abilities/training. If your eyes cause some impediment, then try shooting without them. That is try practicing with "handicapping" your eye sight even further. Sounds like "heresy"??? It is not. Learn from the techniques normally used by blind or sight impaired folks! You don't hear "them" belly-aching much about what they can no longer control, or don't have anymore.

A technique I learned along those lines is to "strategize" and visualize ALL my shots and take a body stance that I can recall at the actual time of shooting, and then call ALL my shots with my eyes closed. Practice this at an indoor/outdoor range with a few targets set-up necessitating some transitions. Shoot them a few times with your eyes opened. Repeat with your eyes CLOSED, making sure to do it methodically and with faith that you can do it, and do it deliberately, (making sure of course of all necessary safety issues) relying on your "stored" memory of your previous "sighted" tries. After a while You will learn how to shoot instinctively by whatever visual input you have, by relying in other "trained abilities" you will/have developed.

By all means do no let failling eye sight discourage you. Learn to work with what you have rather than lamenting what you no longer have. If you can achieve some "doable correction" that's just fine and dandy. But even with these science advancements you have reached the "age of diminishing returns" which most likely will not get much better. So it is time for PLAN B. Just my $0.02 IMHO.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Radical Precision Designs

[Mr. Chitlin]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I am not really interested in open. With 2 kids in college, I have other things to do with 2 to 3 K$ right now. I like L and L10. My Glock 35 has been faithful to me for many 10's of K of rounds, and I hope it keeps on trucking for many years to come.

I have been doing practical shooting since about 1988, but have never been to any formal training. I have spent a couple of evenings really reading over the techniques and trainging stuff on this forum, and can really see what I might be doing wrong. It's gonna take this old dog a little while to learn some new tricks, but it looks like I am picking some useful info up. My percentage has slipped from a high of ~59% to its current 47% range. I'm going to take these tips into account when I practice, and I will just have to make myself learn the proper techniques. My annual optical appointment will be not too far in the future, so I'll mention it to the Dr. and see what we can work out.

Thanks for the replies.

Bob

[AlamoShooter]

RED Dot

get a good one

Jamie

[bruce282]

Interest topic. I'm 56 and have worn glasses since I was 7. Unitl I had Lasik on my right eye, my vision was -6.75 (i.e. really bad). After Lasik I have 20/40 in my right (dominate) eye. I have been shooting with glasses that are progressive from "computer distance" (twice reading distance) to distance. My front sight has never been in sharp focus.

This weekend I went to range and experimented. I have an older pair of glasses (also progressive) that put the front sight in focus with the target being in very soft focus. I shot my 9, 40, and 45 all from a rest, all with iron sights at 15 yards. The target was a 4" circle. While the results were better than with my normal glasses, there were still too big a spread.

I then replaced my glasses with clear shooting glasses and tried again. I was able to get mostly A's firing slow fire at 15 yards, and even out to 30 yards I was happy with the hits I was getting. I have both an indoor and outdoor match this week, I'm going to try with any glasses while I'm shooting and see what happens.

Bruce

[driver8M3]

i had lasik a few years ago, and went from 20/500 to 20/15 in 5 minutes. i loved it. but over the last couple of years the vision in my right eye (my shooing eye...i shoot with my left eye closed) deteriorated a bit...to about 20/30. when the targets get out beyond 30 feet or so they start to get blurry. so i figured it would help to get a contact lense for my right eye and get it back to 20/20. with the lense in, the targets really came back into focus...at the expense of the front sight, which is now blurry. i found out exactly what ron found out...if the choice is between front sight or target...pick the front sight. i shot a few matches with the contact lense in, then realized that i'm better off without it (iron sights).

now, shooting open is another story. the contact lense works works great. the red dot really is a dot, rather than the giant red blob that it was without the contact lense.

[carinab]

About this mono vision thing....Someone was telling me that you correct your non dominent eye for the front sight and the dominent eye for the distance....??? Is this right???

After my last eye doc visit, I had to leave my eyes corrected to 20/40 because 20/20 made my front sight blurry (right eye -4.75, left eye -3.75). Now when I try to shoot groups at 25 yards, I can't see the A to make that my target. I can't even see the hole from the first shot to use that as a target.

Before someone says, "leave the target blurry, it doesn't matter," I kinda' think it does matter. I can't drive my eyes to the next target and find the spot I want to hit if I can't see it clearly. Long, tight shots also require clarity. Sigh...this is frustrating...

[driver8M3]

About this mono vision thing....Someone was telling me that you correct your non dominent eye for the front sight and the dominent eye for the distance....??? Is this right???

After my last eye doc visit, I had to leave my eyes corrected to 20/40 because 20/20 made my front sight blurry (right eye -4.75, left eye -3.75). Now when I try to shoot groups at 25 yards, I can't see the A to make that my target. I can't even see the hole from the first shot to use that as a target.

Before someone says, "leave the target blurry, it doesn't matter," I kinda' think it does matter. I can't drive my eyes to the next target and find the spot I want to hit if I can't see it clearly. Long, tight shots also require clarity. Sigh...this is frustrating...

if you wear contact lenses, see if the doc will give you a couple of different strengths to try out. i agree that if my vision was much worse than 20/30, i think i'd need some correction for the same reason you mentioned. Edited May 1, 2006 by driver8M3

[BritinUSA]

Perhaps we need a subdivision. Allow Limited/Production to use small red-dot scopes, such as Docter and J-Point. I mean iron sights belong in the dark ages... It's time to embrace the 21st century

I'm thinking about getting a Docter scope on my carry gun.

[rifleman101]

I just turned fifty and recently decided to resharpen my handgun skills after a ten year hiatus. I was amazed at how fuzzy the sights had become - no matter how hard I tried, I could not force my focus onto the front sight.

So I started researching the problem, or more correctly, solutions to the problem. To make a long story short, my research indicated that the dominant eye will need between +0.50 and +1.00 additional spherical correction over one's distance prescription in order to bring the front sight into focus. (Keep in mind that I am not an optometrist - I'm merely relaying my research and personal experience.)

Since your eye still has some ability to accomodate for near focus, the goal would be to use the minimum correction to allow your eye to focus on the front sight. Stated another way, even though a +1.00 spherical correction would allow for a perfectly focused front sight with the eye in a relaxed state, the downrange focus would be severely compromised and there would also be a significant delta in the focal points of your dominant and non-dominant eyes, which can lead to headaches and general visual weirdness.

With a smaller correction, it takes some effort to focus on the front sight - not necessarily a bad thing - but your downrange vision is much less compromised and the overall effect is much more 'natural'.

I had my personal shooting glasses ground with a +0.50 additional correction in my dominant eye. In bright sunlight, this allows me to focus well enough on the front sight to see the individual serrations in perfect clarity, but I am also able to shift focus almost perfectly to the 25 yard targets, as well. The overall effect - the ability to shift focus from far to near - is pretty close to what I was able to do 15 years ago. The view is very natural and I don't even notice that I'm wearing corrective lenses.

Unfortunately, in not so bright conditions, the pupil dilates somewhat and one's depth of field is reduced, generally requiring more magnification to bring the front sight into focus (with a corresponding reduction is downrange focus). All of my shooting is outdoors, so this isn't a big issue for me, but it may be the case that some folks will need more than one set of lenses to accomodate various lighting conditions (or else increase their magnification and deal with the downsides). I can tell you that under extreme overcast conditions or when dry firing indoors, that +0.50 is not quite enough for perfect front sight focus.

If you wear contacts corrected for distance or if your distance vision isn't too bad, then it is useful to experiment with el cheapo reading glasses with the non-dominant lens removed to determine your preferences under actual shooting conditions. (The eye doctor's office is NOT a good place for this due to the typically dim lighting conditions.) Low power reading glasses (+0.50 and +0.75) are hard to find, but they're out there.

Here are a couple of sites with additional info:

http://www.pilkguns.com/c16.htm

http://www.midwestshooting.com/Eyecare%20F...%20Shooters.htm

Good luck and good shooting,

John

[cking]

http://www.decot.com/content/articles_hunting_01.asp

Here is good explaination of all the methods.

I went with the lightest blue block, they look orange. You need to keep out the blue, but you don't want to darken things cause your iris will open which cause a loss of depth of field. So dark glasses are not for shooting.

I love the way the light blue block brings out all the colors. Looks like Kodachrome. Brighter than life.

I've tried all the methods except surgery, the method of dominant eye focused on front sights and other on infinity is cheapest and worked the best for me. I'am nearsighted.

Cheap way to try it is take old pair of glasses that you can see distance ok with. Then get the dominant eye lenses changed to see front site. Cost about $40.00

Edited May 1, 2006 by cking

[mda]

Carina

Carina

Mono vision thing is to use your normal prescription on your non-dominate eye and a slightly weaker prescription in the dominate eye. You will only back off about 0.25 to 0.5 diopters. This will make the front sight pop into focus when you bring the gun up. If you correct too much in then the targets become to fuzzy. First time I tried it I was amazed at how well I could see the front sight.

I had the Robert from Decot Hy-wyd , he has been a nationals the past few years, set me up. He held a correction lens in front of my regular glasses, dominate eye only, while I looked at the sights and target. He would switch different lens until we found one that sharpened the front sight and only makes the target just a little fuzzy. If you over correct the sight will be nice and sharp but the target is very fuzzy.

If you have an older pair of glasses that are, a little bit weaker, this is also an option to at least try and see if it works for you.

Here is a link to their web site with an article on this subject.

http://www.sportglasses.com/content/articles_hunting_03.asp

MDA

[Radical Precision Designs]

Perhaps we need a subdivision. Allow Limited/Production to use small red-dot scopes, such as Docter and J-Point if you are shooting as a "senior or super senior". I mean iron sights belong in the dark ages... It's time to embrace the 21st century

I'm thinking about getting a Docter scope on my carry gun.

I think I like it ...

[Paule]

I can highly recommend the Decot correction lenses for the dominant eye. At 55 my vision is still sharp from just beyond arms length out to infinity. The eye doc said no to anything other than reading glasses for close-ups, reading, and PC monitors. After struggling with a variety of kludges, I got Decots with plano lenses and extrasfor the right eye (dominant) in +.50 and +.75. Decot recommended roughly 1/2 of whatever your normal reading glasses are I like 1.25 and 1.5, depending on how tired my eyes are.

The difference was immediate and enormous. Front sight is sharp and target is sharp. It takes me a few minutes each time I put them on to get used to them. Recommend walking around a bit to acclimate before doing any running. After a few minutes my brain says okay and everything is a go. Calling shots by reading the sights is now a possibility, before a bad joke.

One thing I did notice. When shooting multigun stages going from pistol to rifle it's best to re-focus rifle optics with the corrected lense. With a +.50 it's doable either way. The +.75 was much better after refocusing the scope.

[KentG]

Im even more confused now. I have had monovision contatcs for a couple years and Im going for a check up next week.

Im right handed and used to be left eye dominant but have taught/trained myself to be right eye dominant.

My right eye is set for near vision and the left is for distance. Im trying to decide the best choice for 3 gun/multi gun considering I shoot L10 pistol and tactical rifle w/ an Aimpoint hence no magnafication.

If I read and sort thru this right I still will be better off with my right eye focused on my front sight or a tad beyone to help keep the targets from being fuzzy???

I then have an issue with my fibre optic front sight on my shotgun,, seems a bit fuzzy.

Youth is truely wasted on the young!!!

Please give me some words of wisdom.

[neptune]

Here are 3 suggestions:

SHOOTERS LINKS

Decot Hy-Wyd

www.sportglasses.com

Morgan Optical

www.morganoptical.net

Lehman Optical

www.lehmanoptical.com

I had shooting glasses made by Lehman Optical. Send him your prescription and he adjusts the prescription to focus on the front sight or at some point between the front sight, and a target located at a distance of your choosing. Measure the distance from your eye to the front sight. He also wants to know the distance between pupils. Best to discuss this with him by phone. I also had reading bifocals made on the lenses. Before the shooting glasses I tried on drug store reading glasses until I found the right strength, but this was not satisfactory because I had to wear shooting glasses over the reading glasses.

Lehman also made me some trifocals I used for flying so I could focus on maps & charts, read the instruments, and see the runway. Before that I was juggling two pairs of cheap reading glasses for in the cockpit, but could still see distance OK. Finally had to give up the flying due to age and high blood pressure. Still enjoy shooting, but one of these days I'll have to have cataract surgury, and get new shooting glasses from Lehman again. Some days I feel like Mr. Magoo.