Home Alarm Advice

[Sunuva]

Hello,

Im looking into home security systems and cant decide on one it all seems very confusing.

If anybody has any experience with any of the companies your input would be very welcome,

Thanks in advance

Robert.

[Chris Keen]

Email coming your way Robert.

[rtr]

I'd like some info too.

[EricW]

Avoid ADT.

[j2fast]

Interested in some info as well.

[Sunuva]

Avoid ADT.

Thanks you are about the third person that has told me that.

[Chris Keen]

You guys need to know that Home Security Systems is the profession I started in 15 years ago. I did that for about 5 years before switching over to primarily just Fire Alarms.

Oh yeah ......... and since Robert lives approx. 30 miles from me I can help him install his own system, instead of paying $1000+ or leasing it through a 3 year contract from one of the Big Boys in the business.

[Rob Boudrie]

One of the dangers of "monitored" systems is the cost - $20+/month, a big chunk of which is recurring comission to the installer, to take an occasional phone call.

Something to watch out for is the documentation for and access to the box. Ask:

1. Do you get the key to the box?

2. Do you get the FULL programming and service manual, or just a "user's manual?"

3. Can you have access to all software controls within the box, or is configuration of the system something they lock you out of and give you only while you are a "monitoring customer"?

[Flexmoney]

FYI, I recall there being a similar thread here in the past.

[Chris Keen]

Monitoring is not such a bad thing when compared to homeowners insurance. IF you can find a company who ONLY charges $20 a month, you are loking at $240 / year. And I dare you to find an insurance agent who will call the police while your house is being burglarized or catching fire. Ins. is usually only helpful after the fact. And piece of mind while you are out of town or on vacation is truly priceless.

But most of the Big Boys want you to sign a 3 year contract and typically charge $30 a month with a large cancellation fee similar to what cell phone companies use to charge you to break one of their contracts.

Edited April 21, 2006 by C.Keen

[Bruce]

Chris,

I would like to hear any advice you have on this. Right now, our alarm is limited to a couple of big Rotties that were made fun of as kids and grew up not liking people That, and living where you have to get lost to find us.

Bruce

[Chris Keen]

Find a friend or maybe just a friendly installer who is willing to do work on the side can save you hundreds of dollars. My company doesnt do residential security, and therefore doesent worry about me doing 1 or 2 side jobs a year.

Or if you have any knowledge of low-voltage wiring, and can find an alarm supply house that will sell to the end user you can save yourself a wad of cash too.

The part of the job that can be the hardest for the un-trained is drilling the holes to hide the wires inside the wall. If you know how homes are built in your part of the country and have the right drill bits (bell hanger bits) you can probably do an ok job. But dont be too awful discouraged if you drill up and go right through your roof! Even doctors make a mistake or two while in training! I did. But I have done this long enough I know which risks are worth taking and which ones arent. I can still make it work the same but might put a motion det. or keypad on a different wall for ease of installation.

Lastly make sure you get a quality brand of alarm. There are dozens of them out there. Certainly stay away from Radio Shack. Most name-brands are fine they just have different quirks / work differently / programming may be easier or tougher. All of them will allow some level of 'user programming' through the keypad, and may even work right out of the box. Of course 1234 is a terrible "secret" code

[benny hill]

A gun in each room & two barking ass jack russel"s

[ima45dv8]

Chris,

Since you seem to know the subject matter well, a couple of questions if you don't mind....

- To avoid crawling around the attic trying to drill down through the headers, is there a wireless system you would recommend? I had some experience with a system from a company called ITT once, and installation was a breeze.

- If a system is user-installed, can you still get a service to monitor your site?

- If like Rob said, a good bit of the usual monitoring fees are pay-backs to the installers, what sort of price do you think could be negotiated for monitoring a user-installed system?

Thanks in advance,

...Mark

[Chris Keen]

Mark,

Any installers who have been in the business for any length of time wont "crawl around the attic" drilling down. I have flexible 48" bell-hanger bits that I use to drill up from each door, window, keypad, motion detector, etc. and then I run the wire through a small hole in the bottom of the bit (the shank that chucks into the drill) and then I crawl up in the attic. And to save time I do that for as many doors and windows as possible at one time, until I have run out of bits and / or boxes of wire. Then I can grab 5 or 6 different wires whil in the attic, and send them back down to the control panel location, and repeat until done. I like to be in & out of the attic in a couple of minutes tops.

And YES, user installed systems can be monitored. Besides the Big Dogs (Brinks / ADT / etc.) there are still a number of smaller third-party monitoring companies who would be glad to have your business. Try Googling Michigan Monitoring Co. or IDC which is located in Wisc. or somewhere like that. They will give you a 'dial-in' phone number, an account number, and a format to use and assuming you can program that into your control panel, you are good to go.

And NO I've never heard of an installer getting a kick-back on the monthly charge UNLESS Rob was refering to a guy who draws up his own contracts, and gets you to sign up for the monitoring at, let's say $25 per month, then gets the account setup for, let's say $10 per month, from a 3rd party co. From then on he is out of the loop except for mailing you a bill every couple of months, paying the 3rd party his monthly account fees, and pocketing the rest. The monitoring company still handles all the phone calls directly. They do all the work, and he just handles the paperwork.

[Shooter Grrl]

I don't know if they service your area, but our house came with a system from Multi Source and I'm really happy with them and their service. They charge $58 a quarter for the monitoring -with tax it's $61

[Rob Boudrie]

And NO I've never heard of an installer getting a kick-back on the monthly charge UNLESS Rob was refering to a guy who draws up his own contracts, and gets you to sign up for the monitoring at, let's say $25 per month, then gets the account setup for, let's say $10 per month, from a 3rd party co. From then on he is out of the loop except for mailing you a bill every couple of months, paying the 3rd party his monthly account fees, and pocketing the rest. The monitoring company still handles all the phone calls directly. They do all the work, and he just handles the paperwork.

I got my information from a neighbor who was an electrician before he retired and fled Massachusetts. He told he loved alarm work since he got a residual on the monitoring fees from all the alarms he installed.

I'll ask the electrician at the local club what the customs are in this area. Although this person does commercial exclusively, he should know.

The question is, given the choice, what is the better investment in a low crime suburb? A $1500 gun safe or trigger locks and 4 or 5 years worth of monitoring?

[chuckbradley]

I use a local company we have been dealing with for years in the families grocery stores. I know the owner and tech guys on a first name basis. Great for false alarms and hardware problems. YOu need a system that uses entry alarms , motion sensors and glass break detectors.

Be real careful of the small print when using the big guys or anybody for that matter. Best to pay for the system upfront then to lease it. The alarm system isnt any good unless you use monitoring.

A pro can design a system that has been well thought out. He will make it easy for you to live with(yes you have to live with it everyday or dont bother) and harder for the crooks to bypass it. The biggest suggestion is to get a uplink backup. If they cut your phone lines this system kicks in and calls in. This gets the police on the way. Now to slow them down while the police are responding you need safes for your valuables.

Just a safe or just an alarm system is not adequate, you need both.

Then you can throw in a video system, drive alert and several strategically placed firearms around the house. Then you are set. But you have to use the alarm system and lock the safes.

[Sunuva]

Thanks for all the input,

you guys and gals are great

And a really big thanks to Chris for helping me with this mess thanks Man.

Robert

[EricW]

Additionally, to what Chuck said, I would consider hardening the area where your land-line enters the house. Most of the entry points in modern homes are entirely made of plastic and are accessible by merely popping off a cover. No tools required.

[Rob Boudrie]

To refine the question I proposed earlier:

Ask the vendor if they will give you the "Installer Code". If the answer is "No", it generally means the hardware will be useless without their cooperation.

[Chris Keen]

Not necessarily ............ that only applies if you are not under a contract (ie. you paid for 3 years and decided to not renew with that company, etc.) Under a contract the service provider should take care of any 'programming issues'.

Even if they wont give you the installer code, dosent mean you cant find a less-than-gruntled employee who will. Or ask around. Look on the web. There are more and more web sites, dare I say even forums, about alarm systems geared toward the end user.

When I left the first company I worked for (which has since folded up shop) if I was doing a side job that was a take-over / change-over from old eqpt. installed by my former employer, I was tickled pink because I already knew the installers code!

[Rob Boudrie]

Not necessarily ............ that only applies if you are not under a contract (ie. you paid for 3 years and decided to not renew with that company, etc.) Under a contract the service provider should take care of any 'programming issues'.

I assume you missed my use of the term without their cooperation after the word useless.

If you consider are willing to consider the hardware a loss in the event of any chane in monitoring company, there is no need to worry about this. If you don't want the hardware locked into a single company get the code, and insist on a contract clause granting you a right to the current code at any time.

[Chris Keen]

Even so ... "the equipment" should only be construed to mean the main control panel and any keypads. Most everything else is universal. Door & window contacts, motion detectors, smoke detectors, pressure mats, etc. These items are as universal as 9mm bullets.

Call another company if need be, but tell them you only want the main control replaced. Might save you hundreds on parts & labor.

[benos]

My girlfriend's house was broken into yesterday. So I thought I'd revive this 3 year old thread.

I'm now considering having an alarm installed. My house only has attic space over about half of it. And currently there's no access, so I'd have to chop into it to even get there. I'm wondering if today, there are alarms systems that don't require running wires around the attic? Maybe WiFi sensors?

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