American Express

[benos]

Here's what I hate today and for the last 6 years. For 6 years now, the only chargeback attempts I ever get are from customers who use Am Ex. And it's ALWAYS because they didn't recognize or associate the "Ancient Publishing" charge with BrianEnos.com, on their statement, when I call them. Here's what happens next. In every instance the customer apologizes and says they will call Am Ex and stop the chargeback. The customer calls/emails to confirm that they did that. I call Am Ex and no one has any record of the customer calling. I call the customer and ask him to call again, and this time please get a name of whoever you talked to and some sort of confirmation number that the chargeback has been stopped. I then call Am Ex again and they confirm that on further action is required on my part because the customer stopped the chargeback.

And over the years, I've spent literally forever on the phone with Am Ex and my merchant account in an attempt to ensure that Ancient Publishing/BrianEnos.com appears on the customers statement.

So all the above happens in the most recent example, except that this time -for the first time in 6 years - a customer rep from Am Ex tells me that the reason "he" doesn't know that the customer called to stop the chargeback is that customer's Am Ex card is a BANK ISSUED CARD. So even though the cust called "Am Ex" to stop the chargeback, the actual chargeback department from Am Ex has no idea this has happened. Apparently there's no communication between the bank that issued the Am Ex card, and Am Ex. So the cust service rep gives me the phone number of the member's bank that issued the Am Ex card, I call them and immediately Rita tells me that yes, the customer did call and stop the chargeback - and no further action is required on my part. This happened a couple weeks ago. So finally, after 6 years, I feel like I understand what the problem is and also why it's never going to be completely cured. (Because by the time the charge gets to the card issued bank, there just isn't a way to guarantee that BrianEnos.com will appear on the statement.) So today I get a notice from Am EX saying that since I didn't' respond to the chargeback request, they awarded the customer the chargeback and my account has been debited. You can't even imagine how irritated I was. So I call Am Ex and break it down for them and a cust rep assured me that she will have this resolved by tomorrow.

While I was on the phone today, I asked them why I've never been told about this "bank issued card" situation for 6 years. "Well, we're not really supposed to give that information out because it's proprietary" was the answer. Well that makes a lot of sense: The customer stopped the chargeback (with his bank), Am Ex (the "real" Am Ex) doesn't know this has happened, so the merchant takes the shaft. And the really wonderful thing is that even though I call Am Ex to clear this up - they cannot do it because their policy dictates that the merchant is left in the dark.

be

[bountyhunter]

It always surprises me that merchants accept AmEx or Discover or any of those screwball cards. I mean, my potted plant could get a VISA or Mastercard, why inflict the added pain on people?

[LPatterson]

Brian, it would not be a perect solution be I have noticed that several merchants no longer accept American Express and you may have discovered the reason why. From what I have heard Discover charges the merchant less than Master Card and Visa in the order but you would know better what the charges are.

I wonder how many credit card users know that merchants have to pay when a credit card is used?

[bountyhunter]

So even though the cust called "Am Ex" to stop the chargeback, the actual chargeback department from Am Ex has no idea this has happened. Apparently there's no communication between the bank that issued the Am Ex card, and Am Ex.

It's a small world, in my recent mission to stop these e-mail credit card scams, I discovered exactly what you said is also true about VISA and Mastercard.

The "scam mail" actually referenced the true phone number of the VISA office here in san francisco. I called them and asked them why they didn't notify their "customers" that this was going on, and they told me that the people who have the VISA cards are NOT their customers.... the banks who issue the cards are.

The main center for VISA has no idea who has their cards.... and really doesn't care.

There is no communication between the bank who issues the card and the "source" who sold them the right to provide the card with their name on it. Sounds like AmEx, VISA and the rest provide no actual service, just sell franchises to banks who want to use their name.

I wonder how many credit card users know that merchants have to pay when a credit card is used?

I think most people do. Out here in kali, it is illegal to charge "extra" to people who use credit cards (to cover that 3% fee)...... but it is not illegal to give "discounts" to people who pay in cash!

That always cracked me up......

[AustinMike]

Sorry to hear that you're getting jerked around, Brian. Amex has always treated me top notch as a customer and it's unfortunate that they apparently don't take as good of care of merchants. You're certainly not the first I've heard with problems. I like them because they seem to be on the ball security-wise. Maybe a little too on the ball as they tend to cut off my card when I'm on motorcycle trips and traveling through several states in a day! I usually have to place several calls to tell them it's just me making all those gas stops. I've been lucky and never had a stolen card, but I started using Amex initially when a friend had his card stolen and they handled everything for him. Other people I know didn't fare as well with stolen Visa/MC numbers.

I like to use Pay Pal as much as possible, since I pay off the Amex every month anyway. A lot of merchants have trouble with them too, it seems.

[Jon Merricks]

BE, I feel ya. I stopped accepting Am Ex not only are they screwy but the rates are too.

[SiG Lady]

Time to stop accepting AmerEx.

[blackdragon]

I have always used AMEX. reason? They will support the customer. Sure it costs more in fees to accept it. But to me it is worth it. I usually will not buy from a company that will not accept AMEX, For my protection. We get charge backs, The worst are the VISA and MC cards. Visa and MC seem to support the business no matter what! Been on both ends charge backs suck!

Ivan

[Merlin Orr]

I have always used AMEX. reason? They will support the customer. Sure it costs more in fees to accept it. But to me it is worth it. I usually will not buy from a company that will not accept AMEX, For my protection.......

Ivan

+ 1 - but I will buy from a few that will not accept AMEX. But not very many.....

Edit to add: I actually am doing a cruise to Hawaii later this year - for me and my wife - all from AMEX points. No BS... My average bill is over 5K per month.

Edited March 15, 2006 by Merlin Orr

[blackdragon]

Merlin,

Thats true, Not many unless I know them and trust them!

Ivan

[Vlad]

The truth is that Amex is more customer focused. Which double sucks for merchants, because not only do they get screwed when Amex backs up they customer, they get screwed again when they stop taking Amex because customers gets pissed when their favorite card is no longer accepted.

I will disclose that my Amex is my favorite card and that their service has always exedeed my expectations, from the US to Eastern Europe. I use it for so many things that it is not unusual for my personal card to have $2000 charged to it every month. I also admit that I pick merchants which take Amex over those who don't, all other things being equal.

I feel Brian's pain because this is far from the first time I've heard people complain about the very same thing. It is one of these odd things where I can understand both sides of the issue. If I may suggest, change your account name with Amex, or get a second one. I buy software online via third party distributors and it seems that you can add a message to your account name on the bill. For example I get items listed as "Distributor Name (Software Name)" which let me know who the hell they are and why the charge me.

[George]

another +1 to "I always use Amex".

Not only do they go outa' the way to help me when I need it, I get mileage points for every purchase that I can "Actually" use, unlike the hassle laden programs all the other bonus point games are.

I actually do almost all my leisure travel and get huge discounts and free rooms at hotels for my trouble and will go out of my way to use merchants that are willing to accept Amex. The merchants that take the extra hassle of accepting Amex in stride get my business in perpetuity as a result ;-)

I know they can be a PITA on the Merch side, but then again, we accept only VISA and Mastercard at my company because of our bank issues and they are a royal PITA too, just in their own ways ;-)

[blackdragon]

Like I said we don't take AMEX. I get a lot of calls for it. As a merchant I understand the reason, But as a customer Im damn glad I have it. But as Brian said it is a pain to deal with them!

Ivan

[Shooter Grrl]

A real suggestion Brian... a lot of online merchants include in their confirmation email that "this charge will show on your credit card statement as XYZ". That has saved me a couple of times with companies that were slow to charge my AmEx and I couldn't remember who I bought what from!

I mean really - it's not AmEx' fault, but the idiot customer that initiated the charge back!

[Cactustactical]

Brian,

American Express only began issuing co-branded cards with banks late last year here in the US. They had a long standing law suit (over 10 years) against the Master Card and Visa associations for restraint of trade that was finally settled by the Supreme Court late last year. Since then, they have entered into co-branded relationships with a few banks, MBNA was the first and most recently with one of the Citibank groups. The cards they issued in the US were never tied to a relationship with a bank until this time because the Visa and MC associations had rules in place which prevented their member banks from entering into a business relationship with Amex. Amex had their own internal bank and did ALL of their card issuance themselves. This is what Amex filed suit against years ago as restraint of trade and ultimately won. So, the issues you are having if they have been going on longer than this time period are not because of a co-branded realtionship with a bank because that concept simply did not exist in the US.

Any card Amex issues will have their blue box logo on it. If the card only has the blue box, it is fully supported by Amex. If it has the blue box and some other logo on it such as Citi bank, it is a co-branded card. Amex shares the revenue on any co-branded card, but ultimately the financial charge eventually comes back to them for statement creation, so they will always be aware of a chargeback as it will appear on the next cardmember statement.

Amex has had bank partners in Europe and Asia for years because there were no laws against it in those areas of the world. So, if the problematic charge originated outside of the US, it could have been because of a co-branded card.

Your problem tracks back to the buyer not recognizing the SE (service establishment) name on their statement and creating a chargeback instead of doing a little thinking and remembering what they bought. It is very common and the easiest solution is to have your SE name changed to something that might turn the lightbulb on when a CM reads his statement.

I worked for Amex in the area which created monthly CM statements for over 15 years while we were building our business up and still have family members there. It is a very large company and if you don't get to the right person with your problem, you can be told straight out wrong stuff. If you want to change your SE name, you need to speak to someone in Establishment Services. They are located here in Phoenix. They are the group which support and maintain SE (vendor) accounts. You have possibly been talking to the the TSC reps who typically just support CM calls and are pretty clueless about SE issues.

You should have some vendor packets which give various support numbers. If you can't find one with an Establishment Services #, let me know and I can probably find out the best person to talk to to get your SE name changed.

Also, when a customer calls to dispute a charge, Amex issues what is called a "temporary credit" while the claim is researched. The actual charge remains on the CM's account with the TC offsetting it. The original charge does not disappear, legally it cannot. An analyst works each TC, contacting the merchant to determine validity, etc. If the TC is determined to be valid or the SE does not respond to the inquiry, it is made permanent. If the charge is determined to be valid or the TC expires after a period of time, 90 days if IRC, it is dropped during the next statement cycle.

Amex has also contracted out with some 3rd party support to do customer phone service. Some of these companies doing the phone support are here in the US and some are in India. the level of knowledge is up and down with these 3rd party companies and creates issues. the person you spoke to gave you information which was incredibly wrong, so I have no doubt that it was an out-sourced person you spoke to. When I used to work there and would have to get support, many times I would have to tell them what online screen to use to take care of my issue.

If you have specific questions, contact me off-line. As I said, I worked there for a very long time and know more than I want to about things are done and the realtionship between them and Visa / MC.

[George]

Yeah, Kath makes a good point about some folks doing the chargeback thing at the drop of a hat. Maybe a little like the International Products thing you had to do a while back. Big sign in the face at checkout and maybe the name will stick at bill opening time ;-)

[geezer-lock]

After reading this thread (especially the reply by cactustactical) I am once again astonished at the depth of knowledge in this group and their willingness to share it with others.

Hats off to you folks!

David C

[benos]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I understand the root of the problem is that "BrianEnos.com" doesn't make it to the cardholders statement - if it's a bank issued AmEx card. That particular problem stems from my Merchant Account, which is able to control where the cardholders charge appears from for Visa/Mastercard/Discover and non-bank issued AmEx cards. For security reasons, my Merchant Account company will not allow me to change my merchant name - Ancient Publishing. They can add a DBA BrianEnos.com field to it, which takes care of the problem for the previously listed cards. I've also went to great lengths to associate Ancient Publishing with BrianEnos.com, in my store and in the order receipt emails. Which again really helps, 99% of the time. But even though the order confirm emails reminds the customer that their credit card will show a charge from Ancient Publishing, a couple months later when they happen to look at their statement - it's not gonna trigger.

be

[Middle Man]

Those Ancient Publishing business cards are way cool

I wish my cards could be so chic and minimialist.

After reading this thread (especially the reply by cactustactical) I am once again astonished at the depth of knowledge in this group and their willingness to share it with others.

My thoughts exactly. If you just look, there's something easily learned here every day.

Edited March 15, 2006 by Middle Man

[SiG Lady]

Middle Man--

I can design you a very 'chic and minimalist' business card if you like...

[diehli]

The root of the problem is the moronic customer, Brian, not how your business is listed on their statement. I've filed a few disputes and I always have ALL my information together. Granted AmEx's handling (at least how you describe your experience) of the issue after its been made one isn't spectacular, but the onus lies on the customer not looking at the amount and going through what he's charged to his card.

It all comes down to responsibility. Most have no concept of it.

[shred]

Did somebody say 'Ancient Publishing business cards?' Maybe an Ancient-Publishing bookmark for The Book would help a little..

I guess that assumes the guys that chargeback actually read the book though.

[blackdragon]

Brian,

It's a messed up world when people cant remember what they spent thier $$$ on. I have delt with charge backs pretty much my adult life. 99% of the time the customer is confused at first then when you explain it to them they do the " OH". After you have wasted god knows how much time on the phone! I had one guy that called his CC company to find out what he could do if he didn't recieve his product from us. They did a charge back the same day he recieved his magazine. After I spent all the time on the phone, I wished I could have charged him $50 bucks for the Mag.

Ivan

[rtr]

While I think customers have some responsibility I know that I often find stuff on my CC bill that I do not recognize, but I usually figure it out.

In one case where I did not the vendor was listed with a different name on the CC statement than I remembered, when I called to inquire about it they got the vendor on the phone who explained who they were and that jogged my memory.

[blackdragon]

rtr,

I guess that has happend to me. Once I went to a bar here in Vegas, They has really good nachos , Anyway got my AMEX statement and low and behold it said " Power Company" That screwed me up for some time until. I looked at the date.

Ivan