What 9.4 Grains Of Titegroup Under A 180 Jhp

[atmar]

I've seen enough of these double charge stories...the majority of them seem to have been done of the 550.

I'm sticking with a progressive press that auto indexes.

guys,

i'm thinking of going into reloading, what kind of reloaders are proggressive? and is the 550 the dillon 550?

what kind of reloader do you recommend for newbie like me?

thanks!

andrew

[Flexmoney]

A progressive has a separate station for each action (de-prime/re-size, prime/powder drop, bullet seating, crimp), each pull of the handle does all those acitivities...each in thier own station (so, 4 or 5 stations at once with each pull)...then, you "progress" the cartridges to the next station, kinda like an assembly line. Some presses will "auto-index"...they do the progressing for you.

The Dillon presses are all "progressive". The Square Deal B (SDB) is a dedicated pistol press that has auto-indexing. It is an entry level machine. The next level up on the price scale is the 550, no auto-indexing...you have to do that manually. Then comes the 650, which can have a higher rate of rounds per hour.

Brain covers this pretty well in his online store in the dillon area. www.brainenos.com

[chp5]

Next time you load over 9 grains of Titegroup, please chrono the load.

I'd like to see if it makes major.

It makes Major all right - but only once

[atmar]

thanks flex, sorry for the OT, i decided on getting the lee anniversary pack, cos it fits my budget and it has the FCD.

the primary reason i'm going into reloading is cos the bullets i got from my club, w/c worked fine when i was using the stock barrel, are not feeding reliably anymore when i switched to a barsto, and from what i've gathered the FCD will take care of this problem, thanks again

[Gun Geek]

I am scared to use a 550. I've "borrowed" one a few times at a buddy's house...and caught myself making mistakes. I am sure the tried-and-true 550 users, that have been at it for years, aren't as likely to have mistakes.

I've seen enough of these double charge stories...the majority of them seem to have been done of the 550.

I'm sticking with a progressive press that auto indexes.

+1 bagillion

[Flexmoney]

That Lee FCD works great on my Dillon 650 (but, not on the SDB)

[Zerwas]

It comes down to paying attention when you reload. I have a Dillon 550B and I love it. I wouldn't go any other route. I'm glad the good folks in this thread are all ok and still have all of their digits.

By the way, the double charge can and HAS happened to a local shooter on his Dillon 650.

No machine is incapable of sending in a double charge. A person HAS to pay attention when they reload "gun food". A periodic check of the charge weight is a smart thing to do. I do about every 25 rounds after the machine is calibrated to dispensing a certain grain weight.

Distractions can be a real culprit when reloading....

[madone]

I own a 550 and I am very careful when I reload, but I am curious, how does one double charge. Wouldn't doing so set off the primer you just seated?

Obviously it happens...but how..

[Harmon]

look how much case capacity 4.0 grians titegroup occupies. the ask how.

being complacent or not paying attention to reloading is probably the #1 cause

Guys, be careful.

[SA Friday]

I have a theory that most double charges occure when first starting out the reloading sequence. The plate isn't full and there isn't a visual que the rack wasn't or didn't cycle. I am THE sequential odd-ball and use an RCBS Pro 2000. It's not as fast as a 550 or 650, but I already had it and originally got it for rifle rounds. It works, but I position myself to visually inspect each case's powder charge before manually progressing the plate.

Some of the shooter's here prefer universal clays in 40 S&W because it reqires more powder, and a double charge will spill over the case if it occures. I shot some of them today, and I think I will be going that route in the future for all of my 40 reloading.

We had a G35 go kaboom at the CO state match a couple of weekends ago. Wouldn't ya know it, he had a squib load in the same batch

[Chris Keen]

I am scared to use a 550. I've "borrowed" one a few times at a buddy's house...and caught myself making mistakes. I am sure the tried-and-true 550 users, that have been at it for years, aren't as likely to have mistakes.

I've seen enough of these double charge stories...the majority of them seem to have been done of the 550.

I'm sticking with a progressive press that auto indexes.

Slow down there Flex ....... the most effective saftey on a gun is between your ears, and the same thing applies to reloading.

25,000 + rounds on my 2 year old 550 and I've never had a squib or a double charge. I've loaded 9 - .40 - .45 - .38spc - .30 carbines - & .44 magnums. Never a problem.

If you see that the bullet in the seating station (#3) is already seated, then you have already charged the empty case that is in the powder station (#2). Pulling the handle again would cause a double charge. Physically looking into each case as you load them is a practice I highly recommend, no matter what press you use. Most folks will "know" when something isn't right (ie. doesn't look right, or didnt feel right, or even sound not right).

And as SA Friday pointed out, if while getting started you only have 1 or 2 cases in the machine, and dont have anything in station #3 you could possibly not have an indication of the status of your reloading cycle (short attention span syndrome comes to mind here), but a good rule of thumb (pun intended) is When in doubt ..... Dump it out! Your time spent double-checking vs. double-charging .... will be time well spent. It could save you a new gun, some fingers, your eye-sight ..... or worse.

Edited June 11, 2006 by CHRIS KEEN

[Flexmoney]

Most folks will "know" when something isn't right (ie. doesn't look right, or didnt feel right, or even sound not right).

Yep, you usually hear them say something along the lines of "I knew something wasn't right with my reloading"...right after they find out about it in live fire at the range.

It can happen with any press. I just prefer mine to auto-index. YMMV

[JFD]

I've yet to come across someone with a KB who didn't load it on a 550.

I can't begin to understand how someone could double charge a SDB or 650. I've weighed the charge on every case whenever I had any of my SDBs do something "odd" (or operator error). Never did I find a problem.

I've had some interesting stuff happen with my 650 during the learning process and never found an overweight charge. All I can think of is actually removing a charged case from the shellplate and putting it back in the wrong place. Same thing for the SDB.

With the 550, I'd think you'd have to at least ignore problems associated with trying to prime a primed case.

[rockymtnflash]

Here is what a double charge did to a friends Glock 22. He was loading 180 gr HP's with 4.0 gr of Titegroup.

KKM Match barrel

I just had my Glock 35 explode in a kaboom today. I had a stock barrel and had put about 1000 factory rounds through it this summer...so I decided to read up and start reloading.

I loaded once fired Winchester brass, Titegroup 4.4g, 180 grain jacketed Speer bullets, OAL 1.125", as many have suggested here.

The first ten rounds were great. I was happy with the grouping. Then KABOOM!!!

It blew the mag out, broke the mag catch, which exploded into my right hand, and knocked the gun out of my hands. My hands were really stinging, but all my digits were thankfully still attached and undamaged.

The case had a hole at the case head (where it is unsupported in the chamber?) and split the chamber. (Just stress fractures, not anything like these photos) Luckily, I had just received a KKM match barrel and had not used it yet.

My first thought was that there may have been a double charge. So I went to weigh the remaining rounds I loaded. Most were within a grain total weight of each other. A couple were a couple grains less, and a few were over 4 grains heavier than the lightest loaded round.

So I weighed the empty deprimed cases waiting to be loaded. I found the same weight variances in the empty cases. I pulled the bullets in the heavier bullets and weighed the powder. They were all 4.3-4.4g. I deprimed the cases and found that the empty cases were heavier than others.

SO...I can't measure the loaded rounds to see if there is a double charge because if there is a lighter case with a double charge, it will weigh the same as a single charge in a heavy case, which makes me nervous of the heavier cases.

OR...was it the Glock and the new KKM barrel will fix this?

Any thoughts?

[chp5]

Sounds like a double charge to me. Just because the other rounds weren't doubles doesn't mean that one wasn't.

Glad you're OK.

[Merlin Orr]

Rocky

What machine are you using for reloading?

[Jadepanther]

I own a 550 and I am very careful when I reload, but I am curious, how does one double charge. Wouldn't doing so set off the primer you just seated?

Obviously it happens...but how..

A double charge is a double charge of gunpowder, basically there pulling the handle, with a case in the powerder/belling station #2, and not indexing the the plate(rotating the cases to the next station by hand) before pulling the handle again thus putting 2 charges of gunpowder in that case, they proceed to finish loading this bullet and it makes its way into the gun., then

KABOOM

I keep a flash light on my reloading bench on the left side of my 550b, If I am in any way unsure, after a reloader hangup, refill the primer tube, or distraction of any kind I use the flash light to look down inside the case. the difference between a single charge and double charge is pretty obvious, look down inside your cases when you check your powder loads and your doing double charges in the case to get the 4 charge average on the power scale, this will train your eyes as to what is a DOUBE CHARGE. The case would be nearly full of gun powder on a 9mm.

Edited June 30, 2006 by Jadepanther

[rockymtnflash]

Sounds like a double charge to me. Just because the other rounds weren't doubles doesn't mean that one wasn't.

Glad you're OK.

I'm using a Lee Pro 1000 progessive press. Also for clarification, the chamber had stress cracks on both sides. It didn't split open.

[Joe D]

4.4 gr of TG would not do that kind of damage. You either had a double charge/over charge or dramatic bullet set back.

[rockymtnflash]

4.4 gr of TG would not do that kind of damage. You either had a double charge/over charge or dramatic bullet set back.

I was fairly consistent in that batch with OAL of 1.125". Of course, I didn't measure the exact round before I pulled the trigger.

There also was an expanded ring around the blown case, as if it was not seating all the way in the chamber before it fired, or it blew backwards before the pressure followed the bullet out. However it got there, it appeared to expand all the way around the case and the hole blew out the bottom of the chamber at the feed ramp (least supported).

Bad case, bad feed, bullet set in to far, Murphy, any or all of the above? Who knows! I don't think it was a double/over charge, and no squib as the previous shot got me cocky with a dead center bullseye, then KB! Lesson: Leave you egos in the car!

Today's shooting went fine with a new KKM barrel and FACTORY ammo. My groups weren't very good though. I think it was just me, slightly jittered.

Thanks for all your advice! This is a great forum!

[bmadsen]

After loading about 100.000 rounds on my 550, what I thought would never happen, happened anyway.

A double charge – 10.6gr. N320 under a 180!!! On my 7’th shot on my 3’th stage of the day. It blew a large piece of my chamber into orbit, but that was all that happend to the gun. The barrel had to be taped out of the slide, but after cleaning out a piece of brass from the extractor tunnel and putting in my spare barrel, I was able to continue the match.

Gun: Custom STI 2011

Barrel: STI

[chp5]

After loading about 100.000 rounds on my 550, what I thought would never happen, happened anyway.

A double charge – 10.6gr. N320 under a 180!!! On my 7’th shot on my 3’th stage of the day. It blew a large piece of my chamber into orbit, but that was all that happend to the gun. The barrel had to be taped out of the slide, but after cleaning out a piece of brass from the extractor tunnel and putting in my spare barrel, I was able to continue the match.

Gun: Custom STI 2011

Barrel: STI

Glad you weren't hurt.

[Rob Boudrie]

It is very important to make sure each of your loads fully chambers at any rotational orientation (one reason I use a Case Pro).

Handguns will fire "out of battery" - the only question is "how much out of battery?" This amount varies from imperceptiable to significant and varies between models of guns and even between samples of a given model. It is not impossible to get tolerance stackup - a slightly weak case, fired from a slightly out of battery condition most cases would tolerate - and kaboom!