Alan Meek Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) LATEST NEWS Gentlemen, Due to a scheduling conflict with the Steel Challenge, the Area 8 Championship dates have been moved to July 20-23. This was the only alternate weekend which was acceptable to the range and the match staff. The venue and all other previously announced information remain the same. Additional details will be posted on the Area 8 website as they become available. You can look for the match application by the end of the month. Please forward this information to your shooters. Thanks, George Jones Area 8 Director old news LOCATION INFORMATION Gentlemen, I am pleased to inform you that Area 8 will have a match for 2006. Although a number of details remain to be finalized, the match will take place August 17-20 at the Pitcairn-Monroeville Sportsmen's Club just east of Pittsburgh. Nine stages plus chrono, probably 210 rounds or so. Single-Stack Division will be offered and fully recognized. Match Ammo program will be available for interested shooters. Several dedicated individuals stepped forward to help craft a composite solution. They deserve our collective gratitude and support. A notice will be placed on the Area 8 website shortly and will be followed with additional information as it becomes available. Please forward this information to your shooters. George Jones Area 8 Director Original Info. old news Posted on the Area 8 web page: Jan 17, 2006 I regret to announce that the Area 8 Championship will not be held in 2006. In spite of everyone's best efforts, a suitable venue was not available. Direct ramifications to shooters are the loss of the Nationals slots which would have been awarded for Division/Class/Category placement at the match. I appreciate the hard work and dedication of previous A8 Match Directors and staff from Old Bridge, Topton (x3), and East Huntingdon who have made major contributions to the visibility and quality of our recent Area matches. George Jones Area 8 Director Edited February 7, 2006 by Alan Meek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I'm sorry to hear this, allthough I was not able to shoot A8 last year I had shot 04,03,02 at Topton all of which were fabulous matches (even 04 in the pooring rain). Has this ever occured before? No Area match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidball Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 a suitable venue was not available. In an entire area? No venue available during an entire season? Is it a venue issue or a manpower issue? Whatever the issue it seems this is a problem our sport needs to address . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basman Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 a suitable venue was not available. In an entire area? No venue available during an entire season? Is it a venue issue or a manpower issue? Whatever the issue it seems this is a problem our sport needs to address . . . Unfortunately, most of us in Area 8 are in the dark about the efforts made preceding this decision. No word from the Area, or Section leaders. Our club president also has not been consulted, nor given any information prior to this! Can someone explain the organization in an area? Does the area director act independently? Does the area director consult/inform the section coordinators? Do the section coordinators consult/inform club presidents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I don't think the Area director acted independently, but he is the only one that can detail the efforts he made to procure a suitable venue. I believe its more of an issue where he asked clubs who wanted to host the Area 8 and no one said they did. No host club = no match. A combination of burn out from those clubs who host big matches (sometimes more than one) year after year, with other clubs having range construction underway preventing a big match, with other clubs too small or inexperienced for an Area match, and other clubs already committed to a different major match in this Area. Last year we almost didn't have a VA/MD sectional and just as it was being called off, the Fredericksburg people stepped up and saved the day with a fantastic match (during the worst rain storms you ever saw!!!). If a local club in Area 8 can pull this match off, they ought to get in touch with the Area 8 director quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 (edited) I believe its more of an issue where he asked clubs who wanted to host the Area 8 and no one said they did. No host club = no match. Not quite true. At least one club offered but the terms could not be agreed upon. Edited January 19, 2006 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Baier Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I have to wonder if we as shooters are expecting bigger and better matches causing clubs to rethink holding sectional and area matches. Sectionals are expected to the quality of area matches and area matches are expected to compete at the level at or above nationals. At this rate we will have fewer and fewer venues to shoot. Look at the major match calendar, sectional matches are far and few between. Lets get back to basics and not try to out do last years match. Just my two cents -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I have to wonder if we as shooters are expecting bigger and better matches causing clubs to rethink holding sectional and area matches.Sectionals are expected to the quality of area matches and area matches are expected to compete at the level at or above nationals. At this rate we will have fewer and fewer venues to shoot. Look at the major match calendar, sectional matches are far and few between. Lets get back to basics and not try to out do last years match. Just my two cents -John Are you suggesting that our need for high round count ballistic orgasams might finally be coming back to bight us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidball Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Are you suggesting that our need for high round count ballistic orgasams might finally be coming back to bight us? Say it ain't so!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Baier Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Are you suggesting that our need for high round count ballistic orgasams might finally be coming back to bight us? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 A few questions here. How many stages do you want for an Area Match? A Section Match? How many total rounds do you want for each? What are you willing to pay to shoot if there is no cash payout, only a plaque? WHat are you willing to pay if there is a Cash payout? What percentage of the proceeds do you think should be paid back to the shooters if there is a cash payout? How many days off from work are you willing to donate to build, shoot and tear down a match? Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john soltesz Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 a very suitable venue was found and stepped up to take on the challenge, as they always do for the shooters, ( namely obrpc) unfortunately our area director did not approve of the terms. seems like the area shooters have one person and only one person to thank for this event being left out of the season. maybe the President should look into exactly what transpired and let the shooters know. A very unfortunate decision to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 John, What were the details on the club stepping forward? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john soltesz Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 jim, think the only question is , Why the area dierector saw fit to not go with the club that offered to host the match and can offer a truly exciting match to all? and to create something that has never before happened in our area,, such a shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted January 20, 2006 Author Share Posted January 20, 2006 A few questions here.How many stages do you want for an Area Match? 10 - 12 A Section Match? 8-10 How many total rounds do you want for each? Section 150-175 approx Area 200-225 Approx What are you willing to pay to shoot if there is no cash payout, only a plaque? $75-$100 WHat are you willing to pay if there is a Cash payout? $200 What percentage of the proceeds do you think should be paid back to the shooters if there is a cash payout? USPSA Bylaws state: 11.2 Area Handgun Championship: The Area handgun Championship shall represent all Sections within the Area and be held within the physical confines of the Area. It is the intent of the corporation that, other than for prescribed activity fees and actual expenses of the event, the remaining proceeds from each Area Championship(s) be returned to the competitors in the form of prizes or awards. How many days off from work are you willing to donate to build, shoot and tear down a match? 1-2 to setup if it is local to me. 3-4 to shoot Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john soltesz Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 maybe tomorrow we should call uspsa and see if we can hold the match for area 8 w/o the area directors approval and ask uspsa to help us out with what we need as far as specifics,or how about having " its not the area 8 match match", have donations for supplies by area clubs and give back 100% to the shooters,,,,,maybe obrpc will still host Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 (edited) 11.1 Area Director: An Area Director and a Director as established in Article 5, except for the President, are one and the same. The Area Director shall assist the Section Coordinators within his Area in whatever way possible to promote the corporation and its goals, promote the corporation's goals and actively solicit participation from individuals, shooting organizations and industry, keep the President apprised of the activities, accomplishments, and needs within his Area, organize and establish a Level III Area handgun Championship run under the rules and guidelines of the corporation, in addition, may organize and establish additional Area Championships run under the rules and guidelines of the corporation, send the appropriate activity fees from such Area Championships to the corporation, and serve as Match Director of such Area Championship or may delegate such authority and responsibility to another member. 11.2 Area Handgun Championship: The Area handgun Championship shall represent all Sections within the Area and be held within the physical confines of the Area. It is the intent of the corporation that, other than for prescribed activity fees and actual expenses of the event, the remaining proceeds from each Area Championship(s) be returned to the competitors in the form of prizes or awards. 11.3 Accountability: The Area Director shall make full accounting of all funds derived from the Area championship(s) and forward a copy of it, together with published results of the placement of contestants, to the national office and the Section Coordinators within his Area. __________________________________________________________________________________________ I don't kow if I am reading this right, but it seems to me that there is no precedent for not having an area match conducted. It appears that, at a minimum, the president must at least be notified of a need or concern within Area 8, so that he may intervene and possibly address / remedy the situation that the Area Director is having difficulty with. Or am I reading into things? (see bolded above) Jeff Edited January 20, 2006 by Barrettone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Some more details about the club that offered would be good. Can someone from the club chime in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I'm sure hoping that we can come up with something quickly. I don't think an Area match needs to have a large number of rounds or stages. Some of the better ones I've shot were 8-9 stages...as long as they're good ones. If enought people get involved, maybe something can be salvaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john soltesz Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 seems to me that the area director needs to orgainize and hold the vent, not pass it off to som one else and just be there,,,and it shall be each year, seems someone is not doing their job description and in the business world they would be asked to perform or step down. placed a call to uspsa and to dave thomas tonite to discuss our options,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Maybe before we start a revolution, we could get more details on why Old Bridge's proposal was not accepted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Maybe before we start a revolution, we could get more details on why Old Bridge's proposal was not accepted? +1 on that. What are the specifics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 (edited) I dont have all the details and I'm sure that sooner or later the people involved will chime in, but it is my understanding that 2 of the main sticking points were 1) the amount of money per shooter which was to be payed to the OBRPC (the club which owns the range, a super set of the Old Bridge USPSA group) for the use of the facilities and 2) the managment and staffing of the match itself. However this is second hand information, so please take that for what it's worth. Hopefully the principals involved will get the chance to explain their positions. Edited January 20, 2006 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 What is the going rate these days for the host club to receive per shooter at an Area level match? Does anyone have an example from any previous Area match? I know our host club gets a boatload of money from hosting cowboy matches, and I'm not sure if the USPSA matches would generate enough revenue to gain their interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 that there is no precedent for not having an area match conducted Actually, there is. The most recent occurance was 3 or 4 years ago, when a club could not be found within the geographic borders of Area-3, willing and able to hold the Area-3 match. Some of you may recall that the match was eventually put on the ground... at a club in Area-5. Why the area dierector saw fit to not go with the club that offered to host the match I can't speak for the Area-8 director, but from personal experience I can assert that there are a whole variety of things that might turn what - on the surface - appears to be a very legitimate hosting situation, into a situation that can't succeed. Several years back I wanted to put a match on the ground in a certain state, and thought I had an agreement with the range operator. After word got out (which means, after shooter-expectations were set and vacation plans got put in motion), the range owner decided that he wanted 25-bucks a head for his "range fee", on a match which was budgeted to break even at a $75 entry fee. Had to choose between charging 300 shooters an extra $20 a head, or finding another range. I did the latter. If I had not been able to find another range, I would have given *serious* thought to not having a match, rather than give into (what I viewed as) bordering on extortion. It appears that, at a minimum, the president must at least be notified of a need or concern within Area 8, so that he may intervene and possibly address / remedy the situation that the Area Director is having difficulty with. Or am I reading into things? You're absolutely correct. And, the Area-8 director *has* kept the President, as well as the full Board, apprised of the situation as it has developed, as well as being open to all kinds of possible alternatives. Again, I won't speak for the A8 director, but... from what I have seen, he's done what he could.... and I *truly* hope that this "crisis" will result in one or more clubs stepping up, rather than just a round of criticism for a guy who has worked really hard on your behalf. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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