How heavy is too heavy?

[jim vaughan]

Do not test for your ideal weight just using a range visit. Do some matches so that you get feedback throughout the day (or weekend)

[Joe4d]

38 minutes ago, jim vaughan said:

Do not test for your ideal weight just using a range visit. Do some matches so that you get feedback throughout the day (or weekend)

That or hit some classifiers, or do some standards on the clock after running the gun exclusively for a bit. Clock doesnt lie..
I mean you will probably have good bill drill scores with it, but I suspect you would be better served with a lighter gun in todays run and gun spray and pray type matches where movement and transitions are a big part of youur score

 

[CHA-LEE]

58 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

That or hit some classifiers, or do some standards on the clock after running the gun exclusively for a bit. Clock doesnt lie..
I mean you will probably have good bill drill scores with it, but I suspect you would be better served with a lighter gun in todays run and gun spray and pray type matches where movement and transitions are a big part of youur score

 

 

C'MON BUDDY... Why would someone use standard evaluation and testing processes using empirical data driven results to make informed decisions? This is the internet where someone else will do all of the hard work for you based on "Opinion" 

[zzt]

Both of my Open guns weigh 54 oz. empty, and balance on my weak hand index finger under the trigger guard.  That is right where I want it.  Nose heavy guns kill my forearm (tendinosis and tendonitis).  The only way I could get there was by using SS grips.  I wear suspenders.

[Porsche320]

24 minutes ago, zzt said:

Both of my Open guns weigh 54 oz. empty, and balance on my weak hand index finger under the trigger guard.  That is right where I want it.  Nose heavy guns kill my forearm (tendinosis and tendonitis).  The only way I could get there was by using SS grips.  I wear suspenders.

Thanks for the data point. 
 

If I hold with a finger at the grip/trigger guard (strong hand middle finger position), it tips back slightly, so not at all front heavy (thanks to the brass “pommel”)

 

I hope I can get the belt to work. Don’t think I could pull off suspenders. I don’t even wear sleeves most of the time. 

Edited August 7 by Porsche320

[lroy]

Wouldn't it being a little front heavy be better? Adding a loaded 170 mag would shift the weight balance around.

Edited August 9 by lroy

[Racinready300ex]

4 minutes ago, lroy said:

Wouldn't it being a little front heavy be better? Adding a loaded 170 mag would shift the weight balance around.

 

That's something I wonder too as people talk about how important it is for the gun to balance perfectly at a certain spot. But every round you fire that balance point is going to change. There is a good 12-13  oz change from a full to a empty gun. 

[zzt]

38 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

That's something I wonder too as people talk about how important it is for the gun to balance perfectly at a certain spot.

 

Wherever you balance the gun, the weight of the mag is between your hands and doesn't change the balance.  Nose heavy guns feel like you are swinging a log.  Nose light guns require precision trigger pulls, otherwise you move the gun off target.  

 

Balancing the gun as I have stated produces a center of gravity forward of the grip.  Inserting a loaded mag moves that center into the grip, between your hands.

[Maximis228]

Fully loaded mags 100% change the balance of the gun. If it didn't then SS metal grips and steel/brass magwells wouldn't change the balance of the gun either (Spoiler alert, they do). 

Edited August 9 by Maximis228

[Racinready300ex]

9 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

Wherever you balance the gun, the weight of the mag is between your hands and doesn't change the balance.  Nose heavy guns feel like you are swinging a log.  Nose light guns require precision trigger pulls, otherwise you move the gun off target.  

 

Balancing the gun as I have stated produces a center of gravity forward of the grip.  Inserting a loaded mag moves that center into the grip, between your hands.

 

these two statements don't make sense to me together. If the mag being between your hands doesn't change the balance point, then inserting a loaded mag should move the center of gravity from forward of the grip to between your hands. 

 

If the gun balance is forward empty and a full mag moves the center of gravity to in your hands. Then every round you fire it's slowly moving back forward of the grip until you're either empty or almost empty and decide to reload at which point the balance should move again back into the grip. 

 

 

[zzt]

6 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

If the mag being between your hands doesn't change the balance point, then inserting a loaded mag should move the center of gravity from forward of the grip to between your hands. 

 

That's exactly what happens.

 

6 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

Then every round you fire it's slowly moving back forward of the grip until you're either empty or almost empty

 

Yes, moving forward, but the CoG never leaves the grip.  The mag and maybe a couple of rounds are still in the grip.  They add weight.  You cannot feel the change.

[shred]

The exact balance point is largely irrelevant to me.   Over the years I've shot heavy weight-forward guns and light-fast 'shorties' and it doesn't matter much on paper, let alone where they actually balance.

 

I was playing around with two similar-weight LO pistols this afternoon-- a STI Eagle (short/narrow dustcover, stirrup-cut slide), but with a steel grip, and a STI Edge with long-heavy dustcover and block slide, but with the stock plastic grip.

 

They balance and shoot differently due to the difference in reciprocating weight, but on paper, on the clock, there's little difference and switching back and forth is maybe half a mag to get adjusted to one or the other.  I'm just a geezer midpack GM these days though so YMMV.

 

[Racinready300ex]

On 8/9/2024 at 6:00 PM, shred said:

The exact balance point is largely irrelevant to me.   Over the years I've shot heavy weight-forward guns and light-fast 'shorties' and it doesn't matter much on paper, let alone where they actually balance.

 

I was playing around with two similar-weight LO pistols this afternoon-- a STI Eagle (short/narrow dustcover, stirrup-cut slide), but with a steel grip, and a STI Edge with long-heavy dustcover and block slide, but with the stock plastic grip.

 

They balance and shoot differently due to the difference in reciprocating weight, but on paper, on the clock, there's little difference and switching back and forth is maybe half a mag to get adjusted to one or the other.  I'm just a geezer midpack GM these days though so YMMV.

 

 

As a fellow midpack geezer GM, I have two LO guns. One is basically a 9mm eagle, one is more a 9mm edge. There is a few oz difference between the two. The full dustcover gun is heavier and it's all out front. They feel a little different but I shoot them the same. So MMDV. (my mileage didn't vary)

[CHA-LEE]

The life cycle of these kind of forum threads is very consistent over the years....

 

Step 1 - What about this thing?

 

Steps 2 to Infinity

 

I have that thing and it does X

 

I also have that thing and it does Y

 

I also have that thing and I can't tell what it really does

 

I don't have that thing but I will throw in my opinion

 

Final Step - All of the conflicting information and or experiences from others in the thread forces the person asking the question to put effort into figuring it out themselves anyway

 

Moral of the story - Figure it out yourself if you really want to know what things do or don't do for YOU