Point Series For 2006?

[Carmoney]

Happy New Year, everybody--2006 has arrived! I'd like to initiate a discussion as to what USPSA can do (or perhaps, is planning to do?) to make the Point Series viable.

Personally, I think the Point Series is a great concept. I mention it now and then at the office, and my non-shooting friends say, "Cool, just like NASCAR!" I believe USPSA should continue to try to figure out a system that people find interesting, compelling, and fun.

The changes made for 2005 seemed pretty good at the time, but things obviously did not work out as everyone had hoped. Participation turned out to be pretty dismal in 2005, with only 64 shooters enrolled in the Series across all five divisions, way down from the two previous years.

I have heard that changes are being made to the program for 2006. If anyone can fill me in on those changes, I'd sure appreciate it! If not, then perhaps we can brainstorm it here for the benefit of the BOD.

I'll start the discussion with a couple of fairly simple issues:

1. The match calendar shaping up for 2006 seems to include very few "other" matches. Two of the most popular "other" matches in previous years, the Florida Open and the Missouri Fall Classic, are no longer considered "other" matches for Point Series purposes. I believe we need to eliminate the "other" category from the point series calculations and just roll it in with the state/sectional matches, since there is no practical difference anyway.

2. USPSA needs a more reliable mechanism of ensuring that the results of major matches which are part of the Point Series actually get properly reported to Sedro. I can think of one major match in 2005, which was set up and advertised as a Point Series match, where the match director never bothered to upload the scores to the USPSA website--despite repeated reminders from shooters and eventually the Area Director. Hopefully, nobody needed any of the points they should have earned at that match, because to this day those results have never reached headquarters.

Again, I really hope we can get the Point Series on track. It would be a real shame to ashcan the whole concept if it just needs some adjustments. Thoughts?

Mike

[pskys2]

If USPSA is certain they want to go down this road IMHO they should make a few changes.

1) Since this is a USPSA Match, they probably need to up the ante a bit. Maybe by matching the total amount of entered fees. Make the payoff more than just what the competitors put into it.

2) Use it to encourage Section/State Matches. As of now there is no real incentive for Sections to have an organized championship match.

3) While the Nationals should count more than other matches (by a multiplier) being as it is such a hard match to get into (which is good) a competitor should be able to equal a Nationals Point Total with Area/Section Matches as long as there is suffecient competition at those matches. For instance a Nationals Points (x4) or 2 (Extra) Area Points (x2), if unable to attend the Nationals.

BTW congratulations Mike, looks as if you won the Revolver and Manny won the Limited. Did you even recoup the $100 entry costs?

Maybe that should lead to:

4) lower the costs of entry into the series.

5) USPSA could allocate some Slots to the Nationals for Point Series Winners, maybe some paid entries into Area Matches?

I think it's an interesting and worthwhile endeavor by USPSA. The future rewards to the organization as a whole could outweigh the aggravations. Hopefully it won't degrade into a prima donna battle at Area/Secion Matches, making it harder for the RO's to keep everyone working a course instead of trying to outprep the competition. We do need to remember that on the whole this sport is driven by Pride/Fun and the rudder that guides it are the Volunteers who WORK at it.

Just some idle thoughts on a windy, great plains day.

[Barrettone]

Sam,

I have "heard" about some of the items that will be on the table regarding the Points Series for 2006 from a few different credible people I talk to . Some of them are:

Lowering the buy-in to $25 and making it a plaque and "bragging rights" only series to encourage more people to enroll.

ELIMINATING the Nationals as a match in it, as not everybody can make it, afford it, or even get a slot (the multiplier was killing people).

Everything else would remain the same. (1 Area Match with a multiplier of 2 and two sectionals and an "other" multiplied by 1) for a total of four matches counted worth up to 600 points. Shoot as many as you like to get your best score (maybe we need another sectional in there?).

This would make make it even MORE area-friendly for shooters, and hopefully more attractive and boost participation. We would need to keep the "other" tournaments, as they could "quite possibly" be the only thing that distiguishes the champion in a particular division. Without that "one match" (Nationals) to differentiate between everybody, you need a wildcard that will help keep the scores different.

As an example, it is easy to go cherry-pick two sectionals with low attendance, and even an Area match since they often schedule against one another, and the good shooters sometimes only go to one of them leaving the other ripe for the picking. The few "other" matches help to ensure that we get some head-to-head competition between the contestents. There will probably be eight "other"'s to choose from (one per area...as allowed), as I heard that Area 6 is integrating it into a sectional to get theirs to replace the Florida Open. I am not sure what Area 3 is doing to replace theirs.

I too, am very concerned about the PS future, as we have 10 new entries going into it from my neck of the woods alone. Everything I have written here is just buzz at this point, and all should be known before the major-match season starts. Email your AD and make your voice heard!!!

The points series is a good idea IMHO, but it will die if we do not have the competitors to support it. What a shame that would be. Tell all your shooting buddies about it, so that it will grow and not go away. This thing needs word-of-mouth advertising.

DVC,

Jeff

Edited January 3, 2006 by Barrettone

[driver8M3]

ELIMINATING the Nationals as a match in it, as not everybody can make it, afford it, or even get a slot (the multiplier was killing people).

Everything else would remain the same. (1 Area Match with a multiplier of 2 and two sectionals and an "other" multiplied by 1) for a total of only four matches counted worth up to 600 points. Shoot as many as you like to get your best score.

i understand taking nationals out, but without it, theres a real risk of many people finishing in a tie at the top (not so much for the lower classes). and a point series with only 4 matches (and no nationals) isnt really much of a series. i signed up for the '05 PS, but i doubt i'll do it again.

[Barrettone]

ELIMINATING the Nationals as a match in it, as not everybody can make it, afford it, or even get a slot (the multiplier was killing people).

Everything else would remain the same. (1 Area Match with a multiplier of 2 and two sectionals and an "other" multiplied by 1) for a total of only four matches counted worth up to 600 points. Shoot as many as you like to get your best score.

i understand taking nationals out, but without it, theres a real risk of many people finishing in a tie at the top (not so much for the lower classes). and a point series with only 4 matches (and no nationals) isnt really much of a series. i signed up for the '05 PS, but i doubt i'll do it again.

I see your point, maybe adding another sectional or even another area match might help alleviate that problem? I dunno. Charles Bond, the Area 6 director kinda founded this series, maybe he can chime in and give us some insight, and gather some opinions.

Jeff

[Cameron]

I think people that are shooting PS are serious competitors, and will shoot what it takes to win PS. Removing Nationals from the equasion is like removing the superbowl from pro football.

Getting a nationals slot should not be an issue for anyone, espically when you can just show up in Barry with your gear and get added to a squad. Maybe USPSA could save slots for PS competitors that have not earned one, instead of handing out ghost slots to 3rd world country drop in's?

[shred]

Y'all know I'm not a big fan of the PS as it's been done, though I like the idea in general. So, my question to everybody that did participate is "What makes the PS special? Why do you want to be in it?". Answer those and I think the "what should we do for 2006?" answers get easier.

[Barrettone]

I think people that are shooting PS are serious competitors, and will shoot what it takes to win PS. Removing Nationals from the equasion is like removing the superbowl from pro football.

Getting a nationals slot should not be an issue for anyone, espically when you can just show up in Barry with your gear and get added to a squad. Maybe USPSA could save slots for PS competitors that have not earned one, instead of handing out ghost slots to 3rd world country drop in's?

Your point is well-taken Cam, but you must understand that PS NEEDS regionalizion to acquire the participation to make it viable. These "serious" competitors alone can't make it float (there isn't enough of a base). We need the average "in area" shooter to come along for the ride as well. How do you do that you ask?

Well, if I were king (nice ring to it-eh?), the fix would be to have a $25 entry fee and make the nationals late in the year all the time (Octoberish...sorry, juniors for my sin), and make it such that all the area champions from the divisions and classes got discounted slots (the typical $25 off), as well as the tournament winners. Lets do the math:

Six divisions (we are acknowledging SS) times six classes times 8 areas equals 288 competitors from points series (probably less since some divisions (ie revo) won't muster 6 people per area as they need to be in different classes). 8 tournaments times 18 slots (top three per the six divisions)each equals 144 competitors (the first 8 tourneys that can give slots according to current policy). So 432 slots are (theoretically) taken (if there were NO duplicate winners). That still leaves roughly 170 slots left for at-large people given a combined nationals format (don't get me started on multiple nationals formats). Oh, BTW...you MUST shoot the division you were enrolled in for the Points Series.

This makes for a SERIOUS motivator to be in the Points Series, and makes it worth something, as all the area champions (who would get plaques) would square-off at our national championship. THESE people are the ones who would attend nationals anyway, so all we forego is $25 in nationals revenue per shooter, and that would EASILY be made up on the PS entry fees since entries would surely go way up (due to competition for nationals slots). This has to be a big-picture solution as Shred has implied. This also adresses (in a way) the problem Cameron outlined with the slots not going to people in-country first as the majority of the slots would be taken up by US competitors. This plan would also do a lot to restoring the idea that it is an HONOR to shoot nationals. You didn't get there just by throwing your money in the pot.

My.02

Jeff

Edited January 11, 2006 by Barrettone

[Carmoney]

At this time last year, the new 2005 Point Series policies were in place, and people were signing up. This year we've heard nothing so far. Wonder if the whole thing is just dead in the water after last year's disappointingly low level of participation. I hope not.

[D.carden]

What was the pay-off Mike??

[Cameron]

I like your plan Jeff. I think it does address my ideas also.

Now, how do we sell this idea?

[Gary Stevens]

The point series is on the agenda for tonights phone meeting.

Gary

[Cameron]

Gary,

Can you add a simple way to deal with SS on EZWinscore to the phone call?

[bgary]

The most recent update to EZWS (available for download from the USPSA webpage) includes the SS division support.

Bruce

[Carmoney]

What was the pay-off Mike??

Haven't heard anything yet, Dan. I think last year it took awhile for them to get the awards out, I'm not in any big hurry on that. But I will be very interested to hear what's being done for '06.

The point series is on the agenda for tonights phone meeting.

Thanks Gary, hope you guys can get something figured out, I'd sure like to see a viable Point Series in '06 that would motivate a lot of shooters to participate.

[titandriver]

Okay guys I need to be motivated to participate in the Point Series. I live in southwest Idaho, a pretty far piece from any major point series matches. Given the price to register for the point series, major match entry fees, travel expenses, motel & dining costs, ammo costs, and miscellaneous expenses; what can I expect to reap as a reward if I happen to win my division/class?

Somewhere in there is an answer to your question!

[Chuck Anderson]

You definitely won't make money shooting the points series. By the time you factor in the money spent travelling to matches, no way. However, if you want to travel to some matches the points series does give you an excuse to do so. It's just that little nudge that makes the decision to fly cross country a bit easier.

[titandriver]

Thanks Chuck! If it's not being too personal, how much have you recouped by being in the point series?

[Gary Stevens]

Cameron, I sent you a private e-mail. However, in the short term you will have to be a little more specific as to your needs.

Gary

Edited January 13, 2006 by Gary Stevens

[Carmoney]

OK, other than the issues I've raised above, my suggestion is that the Point Series no longer pay out cash. Make the registration really inexpensive (like maybe $25 per year with no additional match fees), and just make it a recognition thing with nice plaques or trophies. Or better yet, assign someone to gather some sponsor support, guaranteeing the sponsors big play on the USPSA home page, in Front Sight, etc. for their investment. Make it easy on the shooters (no outlay of $100 at the beginning of the year), make it easy on the match directors and stats people (we're going a pretty good of that now, all they have to do is upload the scores), and really hype the thing and make people want to play.

[Chuck Anderson]

I have no idea how much I'll get back from the points series. This was the first year that I actually made a push for it. I finished up second in Production behind Dave Sevigny. However, there was only 9 shooters in Production. I doubt if I'll even get my $100.00 back. But it was a fun year and I shot a few matches that I wouldn't have otherwise.

[Carmoney]

The minutes from the BOD teleconference are now posted on the website. Looks like the Point Series is alive, but will receive another major revamping for this year. Several of the suggestions made here are going to be implemented. Overall, I think I like the look of the new plan, and I am definitely planning to play the Series again in 2006.

Mike

[Flyin40]

This looks like a good idea. I like the changes, I'm in for 2006.

Flyin40

[Barrettone]

10 entries coming in from Michigan as soon as they have the sign-up finalized!!! Our whole team is shooting it.

Jeff

[driver8M3]

here are the changes:

Beginning immediately, the Executive Director of USPSA shall revise the

USPSA Points Series as follows:

1. The provisions as to cash payback are eliminated and only trophies will be

awarded along with suitable publicity in Front Sight.

2. The entry fee shall be $25.00 per shooter per division. All members

participating in the Points Series Championship shall register directly with

the USPSA national office.

3. The USPSA Nationals will no longer be a Points Series Match.

4. The words "other Tournament" are eliminated from the Points Series

policy and in lieu thereof, the words "Other Level III Match" shall replace

said words.

so, this year, the point series will be comprised of one area match, two state/sectional matches and one other level III match.

shred asked a good question earlier in this thread..."why do you you want to be in the point series?" i joined last year b/c i thought it would be a good way to measure my shooting against others over the entire year. with only nine shooters in production, that didn't really work out the way i expected.

with this years changes, differences in the level of compeition at the various matches that comprise the point series make a fair comparison against all competitors very difficult.

btw, anyone else notice how the point series could actually encourage sandbagging? if you shoot in a particular class all year, do you really want to move up late in the year, after you've already shot all your PS matches?

i know it's only $25 this year...but i dont see the point...count me out this year.