My recent experience testing 9mm Major loads: VV 3N38 vs Accurate No. 7 vs Longshot

[crsuribe]

DO NOT ATTEMPT THESE LOADS WITHOUT PROPER BUILD UP - I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS TO YOU OR YOUR PROPERTY

 

124gr Precision Delta V1 JHP

OAL 1.165"

CCI 500 primers

Roll sized fully processed brass, once fired, mixed head stamp.

CZ Czechmate, Robin Sebo titanium 3 port compensator; no extra popples.

 

• Longshot 7.4gr (price I paid per lb: $28.20) - average velocity 1437.3 fps (178.23 PF) Notes: Flat shooting but LOUD, clean burning and low flash. Meters very well. Slide moves fast, can probably comfortably hit major PF with 7.0gr and have the slide cycle slower and more mildly. Despite this load not filling the case up to the rim, it works the compensator quite nicely.
  
• Accurate No. 7 9.6gr (price I paid per lb: $35.99) - average velocity 1360.6 fps (168.71 PF) Notes: Quieter than Longshot but considerably "flashier" and dirtier. Meters well but since the granules are small tends to be messier in a progressive press. Case is packed full, slightly compressed charge. It shot softly but due to how dirty it is, how much smoke and flash you get, I won't be using it for indoor USPSA matches. Outdoor should be fine, as long as you clean your gun well. I didn't load 9.8gr but that would probably work well with guns with popples, just a thought. Attached is an image demonstrating the pistol under recoil, for reference.
  
• VV 3N38 8.6gr (price I paid per lb: $49.99)- average velocity 1412.1 (175.1 PF) Notes: My favorite of the 3 but also the most expensive. Clean burning (considerably cleaner than A#7 and perhaps a bit cleaner than LS), low flash, quieter than Longshot. Super flat and soft recoil, low to no perceivable flash and low noise. Meters well and fills up the case nicely. 8.6gr, in my case, the charge was compressed pretty tightly and I had a little trouble achieving a consistent 1.165" OAL because of this. I also tested 8.2 and 8.4 grains and will probably stick to 8.2gr with this powder and gun combination since the 8.2gr charge consistently hit 169 to 170 power factor in my Czechmate, shot very flat and burned cleanly. Either way, I found that between 8.2 and up to 8.6 worked very well. Perhaps 8.4 is a good load for cold weather? Either way, you can't go wrong with this powder.
  

 

In conclusion, I'm going to use Longshot for my bulk practice ammo and club matches, and probably 3N38 for practice for majors and major matches. Although, quite frankly, I'd be just fine sticking with Longshot for all around use. It's a bit loud but that's why we own quality ear protection. Longshot is cheaper, easy to find, flat shooting, clean burning, meters well in a progressive press and because it uses less powder to achieve the same PF (still shoots very flat), I can make about 100 more rounds per lb with it than 3N38 and almost 200 more than A#7.

 

Edited January 14 by crsuribe
formatting

[Acsr]

I'm a big fan of aa7, never loaded long shot used 3n38 it's awesome but the price isn't worth it,  it shoots no softer than#7 the only difference is its cleaner but that being said I've never had it dirty my gun up so much that it caused a malfunction. Plus every so often you'll get a fireball with 3n38 that you can both feel and see while shooting is pretty random but when it does you'll take note cause it gets your attention. 

[Nathanb]

Hs-6 and wac are the other two big powders used.  I’ll be trying both aa7 and 3n38 if precision delta ever restocks. 

[crsuribe]

Lots of people use HS-6, seems similar to #7. 

[zzt]

I use AA7 and SWMP and I get nowhere near the sparks you show.  Also, they are super clean.  If you  are getting more than just a thin film that wipes right off, change your lube.  I have nothing against 3N38 except I cannot fit enough in the case to make major with a 115 JHP.  I wish I could use it.  It is often easier to find than AA7.

[Nathanb]

Sparks can be due to titanium comp too I’ve heard 

[crsuribe]

7 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

Sparks can be due to titanium comp too I’ve heard 

For what it’s worth, that didn’t happen with the other two powders while it happened consistently with A#7. I have lots of pictures like the one I posted from that session and the other two powders as well. 
 

A#7 also left dusty residue on the table  and everything on it while the other powders were much cleaner. These are just my observations from this session. YMMV

[kujo929]

Did you try comparing them at similar power factor?  You will get different behaviors when running them 10pf higher or lower generally. 

[crsuribe]

2 hours ago, kujo929 said:

Did you try comparing them at similar power factor?  You will get different behaviors when running them 10pf higher or lower generally. 

I did. They all started well below major and I built up until they met major and then up to about 170PF. Longshot and 3N38 both passed 175PF with the max load I tested, while I only reached 170ish with 9.6 of #7. Still lower PF and bigger flash for #7, in this test at least. 

[Banacek]

Good info. I have been using LongShot for over 17 years. Started using it for 38 Super and so I tried it with 9mm major.  Worked well for me but I have had ROs say it's loud,not really a worry for me.  I tried VV over the years but thought the cost out weighed the small benefit and I have a large cache of Longshot.  My load is more than yours but my comp has some popple holes.

[crsuribe]

56 minutes ago, Banacek said:

Good info. I have been using LongShot for over 17 years. Started using it for 38 Super and so I tried it with 9mm major.  Worked well for me but I have had ROs say it's loud,not really a worry for me.  I tried VV over the years but thought the cost out weighed the small benefit and I have a large cache of Longshot.  My load is more than yours but my comp has some popple holes.

I was running 7.6gr of Longshot before and it was pretty strong. Will actually probably back down from my current 7.4 to 7.2 or even 7.0. Longshot is a great and underrated powder. The only downside I find is it’s a bit louder. Noticeably so, but nothing unbearable. I’ve shot it in indoor winter matches and though people make fun of me, nobody has seriously complained about it. They chalk it up to me being a loud Open division shooter. 

[Blackstone45]

Saving this for future use, thank you

[caspian guy]

22 hours ago, crsuribe said:

Lots of people use HS-6, seems similar to #7. 

HS6 is a good bit faster than Aa7 (compare the charge weights to go major)

[crsuribe]

6 minutes ago, caspian guy said:

HS6 is a good bit faster than Aa7 (compare the charge weights to go major)

Oh you’re right. It does seem relatively dirty from what I’ve read. I could test some myself to check it out but I haven’t seen any locally. I know people who use it though. 

[caspian guy]

2 hours ago, crsuribe said:

Oh you’re right. It does seem relatively dirty from what I’ve read. I could test some myself to check it out but I haven’t seen any locally. I know people who use it though. 

Yea Hs6 works fine, it's just on the faster end of the slow powders (just like Aa7 or shooters world major are on the slow end of powders that's work to load for major)

[kaseyj5056]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:18 PM, crsuribe said:

DO NOT ATTEMPT THESE LOADS WITHOUT PROPER BUILD UP - I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS TO YOU OR YOUR PROPERTY

 

124gr Precision Delta V1 JHP

OAL 1.165"

CCI 500 primers

Roll sized fully processed brass, once fired, mixed head stamp.

CZ Czechmate, Robin Sebo titanium 3 port compensator; no extra popples.

 

• Longshot 7.4gr (price I paid per lb: $28.20) - average velocity 1437.3 fps (178.23 PF) Notes: Flat shooting but LOUD, clean burning and low flash. Meters very well. Slide moves fast, can probably comfortably hit major PF with 7.0gr and have the slide cycle slower and more mildly. Despite this load not filling the case up to the rim, it works the compensator quite nicely.
  
• Accurate No. 7 9.6gr (price I paid per lb: $35.99) - average velocity 1360.6 fps (168.71 PF) Notes: Quieter than Longshot but considerably "flashier" and dirtier. Meters well but since the granules are small tends to be messier in a progressive press. Case is packed full, slightly compressed charge. It shot softly but due to how dirty it is, how much smoke and flash you get, I won't be using it for indoor USPSA matches. Outdoor should be fine, as long as you clean your gun well. I didn't load 9.8gr but that would probably work well with guns with popples, just a thought. Attached is an image demonstrating the pistol under recoil, for reference.
  
• VV 3N38 8.6gr (price I paid per lb: $49.99)- average velocity 1412.1 (175.1 PF) Notes: My favorite of the 3 but also the most expensive. Clean burning (considerably cleaner than A#7 and perhaps a bit cleaner than LS), low flash, quieter than Longshot. Super flat and soft recoil, low to no perceivable flash and low noise. Meters well and fills up the case nicely. 8.6gr, in my case, the charge was compressed pretty tightly and I had a little trouble achieving a consistent 1.165" OAL because of this. I also tested 8.2 and 8.4 grains and will probably stick to 8.2gr with this powder and gun combination since the 8.2gr charge consistently hit 169 to 170 power factor in my Czechmate, shot very flat and burned cleanly. Either way, I found that between 8.2 and up to 8.6 worked very well. Perhaps 8.4 is a good load for cold weather? Either way, you can't go wrong with this powder.
  

 

In conclusion, I'm going to use Longshot for my bulk practice ammo and club matches, and probably 3N38 for practice for majors and major matches. Although, quite frankly, I'd be just fine sticking with Longshot for all around use. It's a bit loud but that's why we own quality ear protection. Longshot is cheaper, easy to find, flat shooting, clean burning, meters well in a progressive press and because it uses less powder to achieve the same PF (still shoots very flat), I can make about 100 more rounds per lb with it than 3N38 and almost 200 more than A#7.

 

all good powders. I use 8.5 of 3n38 through a SZ island barrel with 2 3/8 inch popple holes and a bidell comp. I get about 173PF

[crsuribe]

25 minutes ago, kaseyj5056 said:

 

all good powders. I use 8.5 of 3n38 through a SZ island barrel with 2 3/8 inch popple holes and a bidell comp. I get about 173PF

What OAL do you run with that load?

[akarhi]

Great information.

i tried n350 and 3n38. Both worked well but I didnt like the price i was paying so i moved to AA7. Here my load data for both. i havent tried AA7 i been shooting CO lately while I wait for my other open gun to be built. Both 173ish PF

 

9 major with n350:

7.4 gr

~1.16” oal

124 GR JHP

 

9 major with 3n38

8.85-8.9 gr

~1.16” oal

124 GR JHP

[Atlas33]

I appreciate your research.  I’ve been considering these powders myself. 

[Atlas33]

I tested A7 and 3n38 yesterday in 38SC.  11gr of A7 behind a 124gr landed my gun at 1360. 9.6gr of 3n38 produced the same results.  A7 definitely feels softer in the hands and both of them dot tracked pretty similar.  I’m going to test some more today for cleanliness and recoil while recording.  

[TechGuy1911]

What’s the general thoughts on how these compare with autocomp? Fairly new to the reloading game and was curious.

[crsuribe]

On 4/10/2024 at 7:03 AM, Atlas33 said:

I tested A7 and 3n38 yesterday in 38SC.  11gr of A7 behind a 124gr landed my gun at 1360. 9.6gr of 3n38 produced the same results.  A7 definitely feels softer in the hands and both of them dot tracked pretty similar.  I’m going to test some more today for cleanliness and recoil while recording.  

Would be great to hear your thoughts!

[crsuribe]

3 hours ago, TechGuy1911 said:

What’s the general thoughts on how these compare with autocomp? Fairly new to the reloading game and was curious.

I do not have any experience with Autocomp or any on hand, but know it is popular. Wish I could offer more help. Perhaps others here can!

[Atlas33]

7 hours ago, crsuribe said:

Would be great to hear your thoughts!

So I think they both perform and meter about the same and they’re both pretty clean in my opinion when using a JHP.  I’m going to use A7 as it’s a little cheaper then 3n38 and it’ll add up over time.  You can’t go wrong with either one though.  

[Atlas33]

7 hours ago, crsuribe said:

I do not have any experience with Autocomp or any on hand, but know it is popular. Wish I could offer more help. Perhaps others here can!

Autocomp is quite a bit faster than the ones I’ve mentioned.  I used autocomp for a number of years in both minor and major.  But since I run compensated guns, I prefer the slower powder to make more gas.