Managing 2-gun entries with maxed-out registration

[RickT]

What approaches seem to work best - Tier 1

1. Accept all first guns, lottery for second guns (registration cut-off for first gun)

2. First come, first serve

3. Second gun preference to frequent match supporters?

4. Other?

How does this interact with squadding?  Squad during registration versus MD creates squads?

[Nathanb]

If you’re filling to max is there any reason to allow a second gun at all?

[RJH]

I agree with @Nathanb, if you're filling up, don't even allow two guns. 

 

My personal opinion is that if you do allow two guns at a match, squad everybody that wants to shoot two guns together. Otherwise you're overburdening your one gun competitors with taping, ROing, etc

[Nolan]

2 hours ago, RJH said:

I agree with @Nathanb, if you're filling up, don't even allow two guns. 

 

My personal opinion is that if you do allow two guns at a match, squad everybody that wants to shoot two guns together. Otherwise you're overburdening your one gun competitors with taping, ROing, etc

 

You tape steel?

 

Only problem with all the two gun shooters on one squad is say 12 guns, 6 people.  Talk about overburdening.  2 for RO and tablet, 1 shooter, 1 on deck, 1 just finished shooting, 1 painting.  Kind of rough, especially if you only have 2 qualified RO's on the squad.

 

Nolan

[zzt]

I don't know about that.  I often shoot on squads with 5 or 6 2-gun shooters and never have a problem.   We are always finished the stage  before a larger 1-gun shooter squad is done.  In last months match, our squad of 5 two-gun shooters and one one-gun shooter finished 45 minutes before the last squad finished.  We had everything stowed, and were waiting to help out with the other stages. 

 

Now this is at a club that specializes in SCSA matches.  EVERYONE knows the drill.  Another club that only runs three SCSA matches a year, a whole different story.  At the last match there, we finished, spent 20 minutes talking and decided to stow the stage.   After another 15 minutes the MD came around and asked were the targets were.   OOOPS.  We reset the stage in under 10 minutes and squad six still hadn't shown up.

[blackss06]

Every level 1 I shoot is first come first serve and the vast majority of the regular shooters shoot 2 guns. 

[GKB]

8 minutes ago, blackss06 said:

Every level 1 I shoot is first come first serve and the vast majority of the regular shooters shoot 2 guns. 

 

But does your match fill up and you have to turn shooters away?  The original question is in relation to having maxed out registration.

[blackss06]

1 hour ago, GKB said:

 

But does your match fill up and you have to turn shooters away?  The original question is in relation to having maxed out registration.

Yes, regularly. First come. First serve. 

[RJH]

2 hours ago, Nolan said:

 

You tape steel?

 

Only problem with all the two gun shooters on one squad is say 12 guns, 6 people.  Talk about overburdening.  2 for RO and tablet, 1 shooter, 1 on deck, 1 just finished shooting, 1 painting.  Kind of rough, especially if you only have 2 qualified RO's on the squad.

 

Nolan

 

Crap, missed that this was the steel challenge section. I was thinking USPSA. Disregard LOL 

[zzt]

The club I shoot SCSA every month used to have 5 squads and it filled on Practiscore.  Generally, you could still get in, because they allowed 60 shooters.  Then they went to 6 squads.  This year they went to two days, Sat and Sun.  The MD wanted to shoot four guns.  Almost no one shoots more than two guns.  More shooters registered.  Now there are always 90+ guns at the match.

[RickT]

I don't manage any of the local matches.  I'm personally fine with approaches 1 or 2, but have a real problem with preferential approaches. 

 

I've often been the only 1-gun and centerfire handgun shooter in a squad and don't find that sort of squad composition particularly enjoyable, but that's life in today's Steel Challenge.  I also prefer being able to select a squad at registration, but the whole 1-gun/2-gun thing makes this awkward for MDs unless the match is first come/first serve.

[zzt]

I don't have a problem with selective preferential treatment.  The second club I mentioned allows the setup crew and some ROs to register the Thursday before registration opens to the general public on Sunday.  I think that's fair, because they fill in 60 seconds or less.

 

Another club I used to shoot USPSA at did something similar.  They were always maxed out 30 to 60 seconds after registration opened.  The wait list was a mile long.  Often, they did not have enough ROs to go around.  So they stopped squading until approved.  They approved all the ROs and CROs the day of or the next day.  We were expected to distribute ourselves evenly among the squads.  The next day everyone else was approved.  Worked like a charm.  There were always enough ROs I only had to run four shooters before passing the timer.

 

I wish another club I shoot at would do that.  Twice last year I was the only RO on a squad of 15.  It was exhausting.

[RickT]

8 hours ago, zzt said:

I don't have a problem with selective preferential treatment.  The second club I mentioned allows the setup crew and some ROs to register the Thursday before registration opens to the general public on Sunday.  ....

Makes perfect sense.  I was referring to preferential treatment of a more personal nature.  RO duty is simply performed by those in the squad who feel comfortable doing so and setup is a large gang of anyone who shows up early.

[zzt]

I really don't understand the reticence of a 5-man two-gun squad.  Yes, it can present a problem.  I t generally doesn't.  Sometimes as an RO I'll go down range and paint the close targets.  Sometimes the scoring RO does.  It is an unusual situation where there is only one painter.  It only happens when a shooter goes to the bathroom or has some other problem.

 

FWIW, I just can't see going all that way to an SCSA match and only shooting one gun.  If you won't let me shoot two guns. or you charge me double for the second gun, I'm gone.  Around me the second gun is $5 or $10, depending on the club.

[shred]

It works ok if everyone is on the ball, but if not, you've got the guy with 'back problems' that somehow can't paint, scorekeep or RO and its down to 4-- the RO, scorekeeper, shooter and on-deck shooter.  Then another one is dicking with a gun, loading mags or taking a whiz or whatever and suddenly the RO is also scorekeeper and painter and possibly on-deck.

 

[zzt]

It could happen that way.  There used to be two fat sobs that shot two guns and never painted.  If forced to, they would intentionally waddle downrange so slowly you wouldn't ask them again.  Eventually, everyone learned their names and no one would squad with them.  They got the hint after a couple of matches and stopped coming.

[Farmer]

On 1/10/2024 at 8:30 AM, zzt said:

It could happen that way.  There used to be two fat sobs that shot two guns and never painted.  If forced to, they would intentionally waddle downrange so slowly you wouldn't ask them again.  Eventually, everyone learned their names and no one would squad with them.  They got the hint after a couple of matches and stopped coming.

I’ve never shot at a real match but have gone to some trap shoots and I can tell you if I was putting on a outlaw shoot or casual fun shoot I can guarantee if someone is slacking they are getting an earful and are outta there! Maybe I’m just getting old and cranky but I don’t have time or patience for that kinda BS anymore. 

Edited January 12 by Farmer

[zzt]

11 hours ago, Farmer said:

I’ve never shot at a real match but have gone to some trap shoots and I can tell you if I was putting on a outlaw shoot or casual fun shoot I can guarantee if someone is slacking they are getting an earful and are outta there! Maybe I’m just getting old and cranky but I don’t have time or patience for that kinda BS anymore. 

 

Unfortunately, you cannot do that at a sanctioned match.  

[Farmer]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

 

Unfortunately, you cannot do that at a sanctioned match.  

Yeh, sorry for the rant. Just tired of slackers that just glide through life on the backs of others. 

[zzt]

7 minutes ago, Farmer said:

Yeh, sorry for the rant. Just tired of slackers that just glide through life on the backs of others. 

 

I hear you.  Unfortunately, I cannot eject someone from the match for being a slacker or an ahole.

[Squirrel45]

17 hours ago, Farmer said:

I’ve never shot at a real match but have gone to some trap shoots and I can tell you if I was putting on a outlaw shoot or casual fun shoot I can guarantee if someone is slacking they are getting an earful and are outta there! Maybe I’m just getting old and cranky but I don’t have time or patience for that kinda BS anymore. 

I'm with you Buddy. Iv been at matches where people don't paint and get ticked. A friend of mine will go up to people and give them a can, saying are you allergic to it? At matches I run this is a non issue because people understand they are expected to help. Another area that grinds my gears is language. I'm not a goody goody but saying 'F' for every verb, noun and subject is disgusting. I was at a match this past summer where a guy was talking very inappropriate, this is with young children present, some people have no class. There's my rant. Be nice, be helpful. 

Edited January 12 by Squirrel45

[Farmer]

10 minutes ago, Squirrel45 said:

 Be nice, be helpful. 

That should be posted at every competition. 

[zzt]

41 minutes ago, Squirrel45 said:

I was at a match this past summer where a guy was talking very inappropriate, this is with young children present, some people have no class.

 

He should be warned.  If it continues, DQ for unsportsman like conduct.

[Squirrel45]

26 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

He should be warned.  If it continues, DQ for unsportsman like conduct.

Most definitely, but he was "running" the match