hammer follow question

[jimbullet]

So I installed a new atlas trigger on a 2011 DVC. At first it was doing fine on dry fire.

 

Tested and with round and racking and releasing the slide, every often the hammer will now follow. What is wrong?

 

Some tests and inspection, I noticed that the pre-travel is shorter on the atlas compared to the factory trigger but still has some slack or pre-travel before hitting the wall and able to break the shot. Someone told me that it may be trigger bounce which means vibration makes it pull the trigger. My question is, does the pre-travel (not the post travel) be the reason? Is that correct?

[lroy]

back out the adjustment screw on the trigger shoe

[jimbullet]

Isn’t that adjustment for post travel ? When I back it up there it’s only stopping the trigger from being pressed further after the shot? 

[MadBomber]

Add a little more tension to the middle spring on the leaf spring.  Or get a Clark 4 leaf leaf spring.  Worked for me.

[TONY BARONE]

Hold the trigger forward when releasing the slide with the hammer cocked to eliminate trigger bounce.

[Runswithwood1]

Do you have access to a trigger pull guage? 

[jimbullet]

8 minutes ago, Runswithwood1 said:

Do you have access to a trigger pull guage? 

 It at this time but my sti dvc is factory and haven’t done anything to it except changing to an atlas trigger. 

[jimbullet]

2 hours ago, TONY BARONE said:

Hold the trigger forward when releasing the slide with the hammer cocked to eliminate trigger bounce.

But that won’t work if your doing ipsc shooting and won’t want that to happen during a stage. 

[TONY BARONE]

22 minutes ago, jimbullet said:

But that won’t work if your doing ipsc shooting and won’t want that to happen during a stage. 

You are trying to diagnose hammer follow naturally you are not going to shoot a gun with that problem in a match. You need a gunsmith.

[HOGRIDER]

15 hours ago, jimbullet said:

 It at this time but my sti dvc is factory and haven’t done anything to it except changing to an atlas trigger. 

IMO, the Atlas' trigger bow is a different length than the OEM bow; and is not allowing enough pre-travel which can definitely cause follow.

 

Use this to check pre-travel and other important safety checks.  Make sure the pre-travel tabs on the Atlas/Geppert are in the neutral position when checking.

 

https://www.brazoscustom.com/post/trigger-group-tuning-and-maintenance

 

Another resource:

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by HOGRIDER
update

[Runswithwood1]

2 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

IMO, the Atlas' trigger bow is a different length than the OEM bow; and is not allowing enough pre-travel which can definitely cause follow.

 

Use this to check pre-travel and other important safety checks.  Make sure the pre-travel tabs on the Atlas/Geppert are in the neutral position when checking.

 

https://www.brazoscustom.com/post/trigger-group-tuning-and-maintenance

 

Another resource:

 

 

 

 

That makes complete sense, my dealings are the atlas bows are generally longer than the bows I've worked with in the past. Sure wouldve been nice to know that helping a friend work on one a while back

[HOGRIDER]

43 minutes ago, Runswithwood1 said:

That makes complete sense, my dealings are the atlas bows are generally longer than the bows I've worked with in the past. Sure wouldve been nice to know that helping a friend work on one a while back

Generally longer has been my experience also.........

 

Personally, I've always preferred the Atlas/Geppert or Cheely depending on the grip....If I had a Staccato, I would definitely go with the Red Dirt USA simply for ease of adjustment and custom shoe lengths.

 

[jimbullet]

Oh that makes sense now. I put the tabs out ever so slightly to reduce pre travel slack take up but if the bow is longer, that would explain it a lot. 
 

in your experiences have you managed to get it to work without altering the bow itself? I’ve been disassembling reassembling trying to figure it out and given up put the old trigger back and tested and hammer never followed on its original sti trigger 

Edited October 11, 2023 by jimbullet
Sti

[HOGRIDER]

5 minutes ago, jimbullet said:

Oh that makes sense now. I put the tabs out ever so slightly to reduce pre travel slack take up but if the bow is longer, that would explain it a lot. 
 

in your experiences have you managed to get it to work without altering the bow itself? I’ve been disassembling reassembling trying to figure it out and given up put the old trigger back and tested and hammer never followed on its original sti trigger 

Have an 2011 style pistol that I wanted to put the Atlas/Geppert trigger in as I have a brand new one sitting in the spare parts bin.  To get the pre-travel I wanted was going to require shorting the (front) sear legs.  This will be an off-season project if I can't get a Red Dirt that will work.  

 

Pic for example of sear leg machining.  Pic is not mine! 

 

BTW:  a good video on pre-travel adjustment using the Red Dirt triggers:

 

 

[TONY BARONE]

You generally need a lot more take up than that to get the half cock to work. He got it to engage but did not see him pull the trigger.

[HOGRIDER]

8 hours ago, jimbullet said:

in your experiences have you managed to get it to work without altering the bow itself?

Also, since the triggers pre-travel pull is linear to the sear and disconnector, one could additionally gain needed travel by perfecting the disconnector.  EGW's disconnector paddles, for example, usually average ~.039".  The spec is .035" -.005".  So equalizing both to .030" would be acceptable.

 

IIRC, the (bottom) bow measurement of my Atlas/Geppert was ~1.725"......

 

[zzt]

Don't mess with the sear if you cannot get enough pre-travel with the tabs all the way in.  Smooth out the disco pad.  If that doesn't work, take a punch and lightly tap the rear of the bow to make it slightly concave.   I've had to do this on every Geppert trigger.  It works.

[jimbullet]

6 minutes ago, zzt said:

Don't mess with the sear if you cannot get enough pre-travel with the tabs all the way in.  Smooth out the disco pad.  If that doesn't work, take a punch and lightly tap the rear of the bow to make it slightly concave.   I've had to do this on every Geppert trigger.  It works.

Thanks for the advice. By smoothening out the disco do you mean sanding it? 

[zzt]

1 minute ago, jimbullet said:

Thanks for the advice. By smoothening out the disco do you mean sanding it? 

 

I use a ceramic stone.  It takes a little longer, but I end up with a planar surface.  With sanding, even on a surface plate, you end up making the edges convex.  Gluing the sandpaper to the surface plate and rolling it flat eliminates that problem.   

 

It's best to move the disco on the stone/sandpaper.  Put even pressure on the pad and move it along the stone in the direction it will travel in the gun.  Better to do only pushes only, rather than push-pull.  Easier to keep even pressure.  

 

BTW 1&2:  I've stopped using Geppert triggers and Red Dirt triggers are a waste of time.  They are too loose in the trigger track.  Other trigger bows are too long, as well.  For example, the STI gunsmith trigger is too long in a Chelly metal grip.

[jwayne]

You may want to bend the left leg of the sear forward just a little bit?   Has worked for me a lot of times!!!   Just a small amount will keep more pressure on the sear thus eliminating it from shaking loose from the hammer hooks!!

 

You can test by dropping the slide to see if the hammer follow stops (only a couple times is enough)

[CHA-LEE]

Take it to a competent gunsmith to get it all sorted out. 1911/2011 triggers are not "Drop In" as there are too many variables to deal with from one gun/part manufacture to the next.

 

People like screwing around with their home brew trigger jobs to save money until they end up with a bullet in the leg because they created an unsafe gun.

 

What is more important to you? Safety or Saving Money?

[donnyglock]

On 10/13/2023 at 4:51 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Take it to a competent gunsmith to get it all sorted out. 1911/2011 triggers are not "Drop In" as there are too many variables to deal with from one gun/part manufacture to the next.

 

People like screwing around with their home brew trigger jobs to save money until they end up with a bullet in the leg because they created an unsafe gun.

 

What is more important to you? Safety or Saving Money?

This is the best advice. 
 

[jimbullet]

If it becomes complicated I will but trying to not have to send to the gunsmith which even a simple work around my part of the world will take at least 6 months lead. 

[CHA-LEE]

4 minutes ago, jimbullet said:

If it becomes complicated I will but trying to not have to send to the gunsmith which even a simple work around my part of the world will take at least 6 months lead. 

 

So there is nobody who attends your local matches who can't do a trigger job on a 1911/2011? That is hard to believe.

[jimbullet]

there is one and I don't trust him as his a self taught so not really qualified. And another one is a gunsmith for rifles only. The closest is a 6 hour drive and the wait time is long.