New Polymer Coated .223 Russian Ammo-comments?

[gl]

I am interested in any educated feedback as to accuracy, consistancy, fouling (from both powder in the working components of the firearm and projectile fouling in the barrel) and as to the overall satifaction with the new Polymer Coated .223 Russian Ammo that has just recently came out. Any comments are welcome. I really do not want a comparison to the old laquer coated ammo, but comments on comparing it to other ammo manufactured by other companies would be great, the more details the better.

Thanks!

Guy Hawkins

[Carlos]

As to the ammo;

FUNCTION: the polymer functioned 100% in my RRA 16" mid length throughout break in; I use the H&K mags as well as brand new USGI w/ magpul followers.

CLEANLINESS: good enough to get through a 3gun/ multigun. I de-foul the barrel after 100 to 200 rounds & clean at the same time, so I suppose cleanliness does not matter.

Accuracy: great for out 25 meter indoor (www.shootersparadise.com and go to Forum; 3gun). OK out to 50-75 meter head shots: go to www.mpsa.net. Sorta drops off after that and do not expect good accuracy beyond 100 meters.

I used up 1000 rounds of the 62 grn JHP Wolf. I doubt the JHP is any more accurate than the FMJ AND the JHP has an exposed lead base (pull one down, I did).

Nice & mild shooting though. Works great in the Arsenal 5.56mm Kalashnikov.

[Mickster]

I use it (55 grain) at local matches for stages out to 50 or so yards with no head shots or teeny targets.

Off sandbags out of my 20" Bushy V-match I'll usually get 2 inch groups at 100, not counting flyers. That's the problem. Out of 5 shots there will always be at least 1 that's 3 inches away from the rest.

Lots of carbon on the bolt and carrier compared to the Fed Red or Win White box stuff.

[Vlad]

Functions great, the 62gr make 160pf out of a 16" gun, I dont find it any dirtier then cheap brands, a bit more so then the primiums. Accuracy is about the same as most cheap brands. My 16" can shoot about 1.5 to 2 inches at 100yards and I dont get fliers, unless I pull them myself.

I like the ammo alot and it is cheap to boot. I wouldnt use it for social events or anything with lots of shots past 100yards.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Vlad

[chp5]

For around $100/1,000 it's great practice ammo for anything <100 yards. Accuracy is about the same as the others' posts.

However, it is underpowered. It works fine out of my 16" and 20" but will sometimes short stroke my 17" (cut down from a 20").

I've also found that if I shoot a lot of it fast - and get the rifle really hot, then I will occasionally get a shell stuck in the chamber. A cleaning rod gets it out with no problems.

I've seen no accelerated wear with its use.

[Merlin Orr]

For around $100/1,000 it's great practice ammo for anything <100 yards. ....

Sounds like this is cheaper than anything I have seen... Where do you get this stuff?

[PacMan]

Hey Guy, Eric & I just shot up about 250 rds of the Wolf polymer coated stuff today at practice...functioned just fine in both rifles (both rifles are 5.56 chambered). Ignition is also reliable with JP trigger group. However, it is really smelly, and the chamber & bolt carrier get quite dirty. I haven't noticed the bore to be any dirtier than other ammo, but this is my practice upper so doesn't matter anyway. It does the job at 100 yds, 2 to 2.5" group, but I wouldn't use it beyond this distance. Beyond 100 yds, it tends to shoot "patterns" instead of groups out of our rifles But hey, at about $120/k, I can't complaint. I'm watching the extractor for excessive wear (due to steel casing), a bit too early to tell since I only shot 500 rds of this stuff so far.

Hung

Edited December 29, 2005 by PacMan

[Vlad]

For around $100/1,000 it's great practice ammo for anything <100 yards. ....

Sounds like this is cheaper than anything I have seen... Where do you get this stuff?

Everywhere. I buy mine from SportsmansGuide. Cabelas have them as well.

[Carlos]

"Ignition is also reliable with JP trigger group. "

Forgot to add that part; most other brands have primers that are unrelaible (Military: the worst! CCI/Rem/Win about the same). But the Russian stuff? its got the most reliable primers out there next to Federal American Eagle.

If you run a really heavy trigger, the primer reliability will be moot. I run a match trigger.

[cking]

It smells bad, dirty's the upper, bore is fine. Accuracy depends on guns chamber, but an average of about 1 1/2 to 2 at 100. Velocity used to be low, has been corrected some. Depends on batch you get. So if shooting past hundred zero your batch.

You can pick up your cases with a roofer magnet!

Ogive on the different rounds vary so buy small batch of each and see if one shoots better with your chamber, also past one hundred.

It not going to compete with Black hills reloads.

[smokshwn]

I have had great luck with the Wolf 62 gr FMj. In my particular barrel it shoots sub MOA all the way to 400 yards. I don't notice that it is any dirtier than most mid level ammo (American Eagle, WW White box). I realize this will not be everyones expeience, I believe I just wound up with the right tolerances stacking in my favor. If anyone is interested the barrel was a 24" match barrel off of a Vulcan arms upper. Wakal turned it down to a mid weight and shortened it to 18" for me (thanks Alex). When I got the gun the chamber was a bit tight but a .30 caliber bore mop with JB paste and an electric drill fixed that right quick. Did I mention that I also have a hammer and a dremel tool and that I am a gunsmith

For me match ammo at $100/1000 is great. Craig

Edited December 29, 2005 by smokshwn

[chp5]

For around $100/1,000 it's great practice ammo for anything <100 yards. ....

Sounds like this is cheaper than anything I have seen... Where do you get this stuff?

MO - Gunshows, mostly. That you you avoid shipping.

[smokshwn]

You can always check here for ammo deals. It is updated often and includes any coupon codes as well. My last case of Wolf came from Sportsman's Guide for $104 shipped.

AR 15 Ammo Price Page

Good luck, Craig

[Merlin Orr]

Thanks for the link, Craig. I believe I will try a case of this stuff.

[dajarrel]

I've run several thousand rounds through my bushmaster. It's only a couple of years old but has never run a brass round through it. I decided early on not to spoil it

Never had any problems in matches or in those long plinking sessions where the barrel gets so hot you have to let it cool before putting it back in the case.

Also fires reliably. I installed JP trigger springs and it runs fine.

And I like Cheap. for me it was $109/1000 at the gunshow for the 55gr.

YMMV

dj

Edited December 30, 2005 by dajarrel

[OLD SF MJT]

I've used the 55 gr. FMJ stuff out of my 16" carbine without a hitch. Accuracy is excellent out to 150m. Reliability is without fault with the polimer coated rounds (haven't used the laquer-coated stuff in the AR ). It is dirty...my upper is thoroughly filthed by the end of a day's practice...and the muzzle flash is...PROMINENT!!! I attribute both to the "Modified Yak Dung" powder that Wolf uses! And, as all others have said, the price is great!

Your mileage may vary!!!

[Les Snyder]

I shoot the same local matches as Mick and observe about the same accuracy as he mentioned out of a 16 inch A3 upper... I have a problem with the carbon forming on the bolt/carrier... I have a continuous McFarland style ring and have to lubricate the ring every 100 rounds or it will not function properly.... even lubricated I typically have to pry the carrier and bolt apart to clean it after a match... an overnight soaking in Slip 2000 Carbon Cutter allows me to wipe off the carbon...I'm afraid to look in the gas tube regards Les

[RH45]

I've been running it lately because I can hardly load for what it costs to buy the stuff, but, I won't use it for any long, or tight shots. Like was said before, there always seem to be flyers.

I usually clean my guns between matches anyway so it being a little dirtier hasn't been a problem, but, if you run thousands of rounds without cleaning, it may become one.

[Big Shooter]

I'm looking for a couple thousand rounds of cheap ammo...just to have for when I'm to lazy to load. Are any new/recent experiences with this stuff out there?

Specifically, I've been told the laquer-coated stuff is bad because the laquer will flow into the chamber when the gun gets hot and is almost impossible to get out. Does the polymer stuff have the same problems?

I realize this stuff is neither the cleanest stuff out there nor is it match ammo. I'm mainly curious about "coating flowage" or other permanant damage.

[Vlad]

The Laquer coated stuff is going to be hard to even find anymore. I don't think they've been importing it for a couple of years now. As far as I know there have been zero reports on the polymer stuff sticking or flowing.

[raz-0]

Specifically, I've been told the laquer-coated stuff is bad because the laquer will flow into the chamber when the gun gets hot and is almost impossible to get out. Does the polymer stuff have the same problems?

I realize this stuff is neither the cleanest stuff out there nor is it match ammo. I'm mainly curious about "coating flowage" or other permanant damage.

reading around on the net, i have found two groups come to the same conclusion independantly reagrding wolf.

Laquer is not an issue, you can't get it anymore unless you manage to buy old stock off of someone.

What IS an issue is athte the steel cases are not as ductile as brass. they don't expand as completely or as quickly as a brass case. This means you get more carbon buildup farther back in the chamber. So if you shoot a bunch of wolf, then shoot some brass, the brass may bind due to a dirty chamber. If you clean the chamber in between, no problems.

This poses some issues for those of the mindset htat they will shoot the hoser part of a match/stage with wolf and load the mag with the handloads for the long shots.

the box o truth has a pretty good account of the whole concept.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm