Scrounger Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) On 9/15/2023 at 8:53 AM, Hoops said: Looking at 2022 financial statements the BOD’s better be focused on ideas other than increasing fees. The days of status quo are gone. New generation of shooters is changing. Speaking for SCSA, fresh ideas like Limited Optics and adding new stages need to discussed. IMO….for what that’s worth. I agree with this. I started steel challenge three years ago. I came over from 30 years of Sporting Clays and Skeet, with my 10 year old because he wanted to shoot fast:-). RDRO/PCC was easiest for both of us to transition from shotgun. Hoops actually dialed us into to our RFRO setup…thank you! Different divisions appeal to different individuals. I still love RFRO/PCC the most at my age and eyesight. I dabble in USPSA, but after a fall at a match (no DQ) I still enjoy SCSA better. Many of the younger shooters at our club think SCSA is boring, but they shoot steel to get trigger time with their favorite USPSA guns. CO and now LO dominate in my area. Cost is a big factor limiting young people from shooting open. Why not open LO up to attract shooters. I also agree with adding more stages and/or brining back old ones to keep things interesting. My club also cannot run the wide stages like OL. I’m from the Midwest and now in CA, and the regs are moronic here for shooting sports. We need to promote all shooting sports and create ease of entry to attract new shooters and retain old ones, or our hobby will fade away. Californias are moving into a neighborhood near you and they’re gonna try and take your freedom away too, if they haven’t already. Edited October 11, 2023 by Scrounger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 8 hours ago, Scrounger said: Why not open LO up to attract shooters. I'll say it again, how much different are shooters current times in CO vs Open? If you look at the guys at the top it's basically the same. Adding LO sandwiched between those two divisions there will still be no discernable difference on the ground between the three divisions. So the only reason to sperate them is to give out more trophies. Trophies are inflationary, the more you give out the less value they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truespode Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said: Adding LO sandwiched between those two divisions there will still be no discernable difference on the ground between the three divisions. So the only reason to sperate them is to give out more trophies. I think the reason is to reduce capacity on CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 24 minutes ago, truespode said: I think the reason is to reduce capacity on CO. This is SC, so you only need 5 shots anyway. But, yeah I think bumping prod to 15 and dropping CO to 15 in USPSA might at least separate LO and CO. and be a good move. That or just combine them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted October 11, 2023 Author Share Posted October 11, 2023 From what I have been listening to at the 3 monthly SC matches is that many people love to shoot their 1911/2011 style guns…..but not iron sights. Optics are hugely popular. Fun to shoot. Adding an optic to a slide is easy. Since SC has no power factor any 1911/2011 can be converted. 95% if the SC membership probably doesn’t have a clue about trophies or awards. Cat’s out of the bag once USPSA allowed LO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truespode Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: This is SC, so you only need 5 shots anyway. DOH! Obviously this idiot is not paying attention! (the idiot is me) Edited October 11, 2023 by truespode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrounger Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Hoops said: 95% if the SC membership probably doesn’t have a clue about trophies or awards. Cat’s out of the bag once USPSA allowed LO. Right! I didn’t even know they gave out trophies? Most people just get excited for the raffle items and goody bags at the Level II’s. Open always seems to win overall in our matches, unless Kenny is there, then nobody has a chance in hell:-). I can’t even confirm his hits on plates because it sounds like one long ding. We all just filter on our divisions in practice score after the match to see how we fared in our respective divisions and various stages, to see if we’ve improved or confirm we beat our buddies:-). My buddy’s 13 year old sons’s been threatening to beat me at several matches and I’ll celebrate when he does! Edited October 11, 2023 by Scrounger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Hoops said: 95% if the SC membership probably doesn’t have a clue about trophies or awards. If that were true we wouldn't have divisions at all. Maybe they don't get awards because they don't shoot majors. But they still want to win even if that means they're shooting a tiny niche division. Which really isn't winning, it's not really even competitive shooting if you're all alone after it's broken down into division/classification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted October 11, 2023 Author Share Posted October 11, 2023 29 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: If that were true we wouldn't have divisions at all. Maybe they don't get awards because they don't shoot majors. But they still want to win even if that means they're shooting a tiny niche division. Which really isn't winning, it's not really even competitive shooting if you're all alone after it's broken down into division/classification. I’m putting you in the “No” category for LO. appreciate your insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Scrounger said: Open always seems to win overall in our matches Really? It's the Rimfire Rifle that rules the overall in the matches I've seen. At AREA 6, the highest Open finish was at #87 (98.44 sec), which was the best showing that wasn't Rimfire or PCC. Winning time was RFRO at 59.95 sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrounger Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) Sorry, I stand corrected. Not enough coffee yet Open generally wins our local USPSA matches. Though they also do well ar SCSA. You are correct that the RFRO/PCC the top of our local SCSA matches. That said, RFRO is a competitive division, Kenshiro Nagata is in the area and when he’s shows all is lost… Edited October 11, 2023 by Scrounger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 This is off topic but it's why there shouldn't even be a combine score. Every division is separate and people get to focused on the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted October 11, 2023 Author Share Posted October 11, 2023 17 minutes ago, Squirrel45 said: This is off topic but it's why there shouldn't even be a combine score. Every division is separate and people get to focused on the top. 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrounger Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Squirrel45 said: This is off topic but it's why there shouldn't even be a combine score. Every division is separate and people get to focused on the top. Agreed, and it’s not a fair comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 On 9/14/2023 at 7:56 PM, Darqusoull13 said: Well I'll tell you we did what I think will grow the sport at A4. 1) Kids Team Trophy and partnering with SASP. You saw the teams show up. Imagine that at every area and wssc. 2) Free kids clinics taught by top pros. MGM Junior camp but at a match they are shooting. 3) Pay for RO certifications. A4 paid for 8 new ROs for our club. Knowing the rules and understanding them has dramatically increased the quality of our matches. I’ve been thinking about this. A4 was a one and done unfortunately. So considering just the local matches you run, have these points above added growth to the numbers that regularly shoot your Level 1 match? Since you run a USPSA match with several people shooting LO’s, : 1. Do any of your USPSA shooters shoot your SC match? 2. Do you get any questions from any of your shooters… USPSA and SC…. about adding LO’s to SC? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darqusoull13 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Hoops said: I’ve been thinking about this. A4 was a one and done unfortunately. So considering just the local matches you run, have these points above added growth to the numbers that regularly shoot your Level 1 match? Since you run a USPSA match with several people shooting LO’s, : 1. Do any of your USPSA shooters shoot your SC match? 2. Do you get any questions from any of your shooters… USPSA and SC…. about adding LO’s to SC? Thanks Look, LO in SCSA is one of the worst proposals I've seen in a long time. How about we just focus on more important things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 25 minutes ago, Darqusoull13 said: Look, LO in SCSA is one of the worst proposals I've seen in a long time. How about we just focus on more important things? I think the important stuff is probably the financial situation of the org. The law suits, the head of the finance committee getting bumped from the committee in what seems like retaliation. Will YML be allowed to take office as Prez in 2024? But, these threads tend to get locked. But, rule changes general produce dozens of pages of comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I think the important stuff is probably the financial situation of the org. The law suits, the head of the finance committee getting bumped from the committee in what seems like retaliation. Will YML be allowed to take office as Prez in 2024? But, these threads tend to get locked. But, rule changes general produce dozens of pages of comments. 37 minutes ago, Darqusoull13 said: Look, LO in SCSA is one of the worst proposals I've seen in a long time. How about we just focus on more important things? True that there are other important discussions, but this topic is Limited Optics. If we drift off topic into Org business or get into characterizations of people’s opinions, as @Racinready300exsaid, it will get locked. Back to topic: We do have regular USPSA shooters….including GM and M’s that cross over to our SC matches. They have set up nice LO guns. In fact, their questions to me is what prompted me to start this topic. But, now I have several others asking me about LO as well. There is an interest in SC LO. @ZackJonessaid in this thread that he will be discussing with the BOD’s. I suppose at some point these threads/topics become redundant and not much new is added. Seems like we have reached that point. thanks to all who read or commented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darqusoull13 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 @ZackJones I genuinely hope Carry Optics+ or Open Lite is not something that gets brought up with the BOD. Rather, I would love to see efforts put into standalone SCSA RO Cert programs, youth involvement efforts and a plan to run 2 x 8 stages at WSSC to really drive growth of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Well, I like combined. Why? I love it when I shoot pistols and beat people shooting long guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Or working on new stages or bringing back the old ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42ATK Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 My random opinion, despite having 4 guns with GM times on it, is Outer Limits shouldn’t be a SC stage. Keep the game standing still drag racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Hoops said: We do have regular USPSA shooters….including GM and M’s that cross over to our SC matches. They have set up nice LO guns. In fact, their questions to me is what prompted me to start this topic. But, now I have several others asking me about LO as well. There is an interest in SC LO. Did you happen to ask them why they're opposed to shooting open with those guns? Have the same discussion we're having here. Point out the similarities in the divisions and the times people shoot. People always want to shoot their new gun, and they can already. We just need to decide if there should be another division for it. To me SC divisions seem really bloated, especially considering most people seem to be shooting the rimfire optic divisions anyway. Do you really need more center fire divisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: To me SC divisions seem really bloated, especially considering most people seem to be shooting the rimfire optic divisions anyway. Do you really need more center fire divisions? Ah nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 40 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: Did you happen to ask them why they're opposed to shooting open with those guns? Have the same discussion we're having here. Point out the similarities in the divisions and the times people shoot. People always want to shoot their new gun, and they can already. We just need to decide if there should be another division for it. To me SC divisions seem really bloated, especially considering most people seem to be shooting the rimfire optic divisions anyway. Do you really need more center fire divisions? I did not ask them. I will when I return to shooting in a few weeks (hopefully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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